My apisto cacatuoides

[Cubeology]

2 days ago this young pair of apistogramma cacatuoides blue arrived in the mail. I have done everything I could think of to make them a nice habitat although I realize the tank is a little small (20x10x20). I would love to hear any advice on the tank layout or anything else for that matter, I am new to apistogrammas. In the center, although the opening is blocked a little by plants is one of the cichlid stones. I have pieces of java moss glued to both driftwood pieces and the stone which should fill out in time. I also have some salvinia cucullata that I am going to add as a surface plant.

They appear to be very juvenile fish without a whole lot of color. How old do you think they are? I'm hoping they will eventually spawn successfully.

 

[MonteSS]

Lookin good.

...Bill

 

[Tom C]

Why the gravel?
I strongly believe that most Apistogramma species won't thrive in the long term without fine sand on the bottom.

Frank Schäfer wrote not long ago:
"Especially the sand is important and the meaning of it often underestimated.
In fact the sand is more important than the water chemistry (hardness, pH).
In the wild, these fish feed mainly on particles they find in the sand.
To find them the fish takes a mouth full of sand, chews the sand and releases the sand through the gill openings.
Food particles attach on special anatomical structures on the gill arches and can be swallowed subsequently.
In case an Apistogramma can find no sand it comes in a situation comparably to humans that get no opportunity to clean their teeth.
This may work for a while, but in most cases sooner or later one becomes sick of it."

This is one of the habitats where I have collected Apistogramma cacatuoides:

Sand almost as fine as flour, and leaf litter.

I wish you good luck!

 

[Cubeology]

Why the gravel?
I strongly believe that most Apistogramma species won't thrive in the long term without fine sand on the bottom.

The fact that sand was important never made an impression on me when I was researching. The Seachem Flourite plant substrate has been in this tank for years from before I re-purposed it for the apistos. The few pieces of black gravel were added at some point because I thought it looked better. Would it work to add a layer of something sand-like on top of the Flourite? Preferably something that wouldn't clash colorwise.

I don't really have enough substrate rooted plants in there anymore to necessitate the plant substrate, but I must admit switching substrate is a task I would rather avoid. A layer of black sand on top would look ok and would last until I decided I needed to disturb it for some reason, at which point I suppose I could add more. Would this make sense at all?

 

[Cubeology]

Leaves: I have thought about the deal with leaves. I have no idea where to find an oak tree but I am uncertain how to determine what other leaves may be suitable. We have a lot of palm trees and fruit trees around. I found this tree with leaves that look the same shape as maple leaves although I am totally ignorant of horticulture. Perhaps someone can tell me what it is and if it is ok from the picture.

Sand: Will desert sand work, some of it is very fine (and plentiful). Sounds like you are almost talking about silt in your description above, geology I do know. Sand from the our beaches is very course, but some sand around lakes is fairly fine. Of course I could buy sand, and it seems I could put it on top of the Flourite and even if it mixed it would give the fish their source of sand.

 

[MonteSS]

Pool filter sand is fairly clean and wont clog filters. All my apistos love to forage in the sand for food.

....Bill

 

[Cyn1k]

Those are maple leaves. As a Canadian (and Toronto Maple Leafs fan) I'm 100% certain.

 

[Cubeology]

I will try drying those leaves like I've done with flowers in the microwave.

Does the sand have to be silica for the apistos? I was looking at the Flourite Black Sand substrate that has plant nutrients in it, but it is clay based.

 

[DBlauj]

I have heard that maple leaves were not what you want for apistos. Oak leaves are what I use and from the picture those seek like maple leaves.

 

[Mike Wise]

Your set-up IMHO is far from ideal for breeding apistos. As I said before the bottom area is rather small. I have to agree with Tom, your sand (granule size according to us sedimentary geologists) is too large. The sand substrate of the Amazon is very fine sand/coarse silt grain in size. I've successfully used blasting sand (1-1.5 mm ϕ), which is about as large as these fish can sift, for many years. I'm sure finer sand would be better. Silica sand would be best as it is more or less chemically inert. My blasting sand is mostly quartz and felspar (derived from granite source). Black sands are usually composed of more mafic minerals from basaltic origins. Most are beach sands and contain a small percentage of sand sized shell material. This can raise KH, depending of how much shell is in the sand. As for leaves (yes, those are maple leaves) oak leaves are recommended because oaks live in acidic soil and their leaf mold helps with the acidification of the soil. In a similar way oak leaves help acidify the tank water, releasing tannis and humic substances that seem to stimulate breeding for some reason. Maple leave's acidifying ability varies with species, but none are as acidifying as an oak's or beech's. Green leaves are not ideal; too much 'sugar' in the leaves, compared to dropped leaves, that encourage bacterial blooms. Before leaves drop in the Fall, all of these nutrients are transported to the tree's roots. Drying green leaves will not help.

 

[Cubeology]

Perhaps I should clarify what my priorities are:

1: A comfortable environment for the fish
2. An attractive tank display to us humans
3. Conducive to breeding. (much goes back to #1 but perhaps not entirely).

Sand seems important to #1 as well as #3 so I will consider making this alteration. What about this commercial product, claims to be .1 to .3 mm and chemically inert. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21432

Seems like any leaf that is aquarium safe would satisfy #1 so if oak, beech, or IAL are either totally unavailable or only available to me by buying them online perhaps maple leaves would be better than nothing (correct?). I can collect dead leaves, plenty of dead leaves fall from trees during the hot dry summer here, it is just harder to find intact ones. Oaks and beeches must not do well in desert climate because I don't see them growing anywhere. Also I read the California black oaks are very bad, and these are what I am likely to find if I get someone to take me into the greener or mountainous areas around here. I read somewhere that fruit trees might work, fruit trees of all kinds are plentiful anywhere Southern California, but I only saw them mentioned briefly on one website I visited.

 

[Cubeology]

Couldn't figure out the way to edit and add this on to the previous post like on most forums.

Would switching to a standard dimension 20 gallon tank (with sand) make a significant difference, I have room for that and it would fit on my stand. A tank is cheap and most equipment would transfer over except a light for which I would have to cough up $100. Suppose I could use the 18 gallon show as a grow out tank if I get so lucky. That would just leave me needing leaves, guess I could find someone online to send me some, or buy those IAL leaves

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I like Pool filter sand as well.

Have a look at this article, well worth a read <http://www.seriouslyfish.com/all-the-leaves-are-brown/>.

Those are maple leaves. As a Canadian (and Toronto Maple Leafs fan) I'm 100% certain.

I think they may be Plane (Platanus spp.) leaves. These are very similar in shape to Maple (Acer spp), but you can tell from the branching on the tree, Maples have opposite leaves, and on Plane it is alternate, Plane also has distinctive bark.

I've used Plane leaves and they were persistent and I didn't have any problems, although it might be worth reading this post. <http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php?threads/plane-tree-leaves.9948/>.

Green leaves are not ideal; too much 'sugar' in the leaves, compared to dropped leaves, that encourage bacterial blooms.

You definitely want dead leaves.

I read somewhere that fruit trees might work, fruit trees of all kinds are plentiful anywhere Southern California, but I only saw them mentioned briefly on one website I visited.

Guava (Psidium guajava) leaves are popular with Shrimp keepers now <http://www.thaicatappa.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=539334367>, and I've used Loquat (Eriobotrya japonica) leaves for several years without any problem.

Magnolia grandiflora is another tree leaf that may be available to you and works well, Frog keepers use them, and they are definitely suitable <http://www.dendroworks.co.uk/index.php/the-substrate->.

cheers Darrel

 

[Cubeology]

I definitively have access to magnolia leaves, in fact the main street through Riverside is called Magnolia. I know there is a magnolia tree in the park across from my condo because I walked around the park and picked leaves to take home and identify. They are very large thick leaves.

 

[Mike Wise]

A 15/20H has more bottom area and would be much better for a pair of apistos. TBH leaves on the bottom are not absolutely necessary. Just use driftwood and clumps of Java Moss and it will work just as well.

 

[Cubeology]

A 15/20H has more bottom area and would be much better for a pair of apistos. TBH leaves on the bottom are not absolutely necessary. Just use driftwood and clumps of Java Moss and it will work just as well.

what does TBH stand for?

 

[Mike Wise]

To be honest

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

They are very large thick leaves.

That is the one, the evergreen Magnolia grandiflora.

cheers Darrel

 

[Cubeology]

Update:

1. Obtained 20 gallon tank
2. Painted rear glass black
3. Ordered sand: CaribSea Sunset Gold
4. Ordered light fixture: Finnex Ray II Ultra Slim LED 24" DS
5. Should have all components in hand by Friday
6. All other equipment and decor will be transferred.
7. Still can't locate an oak tree.
8. Obtained magnolia leaves which make great hiding/spawning places even if they don't have all the optimal chemical properties.
9. Obtained salvinia cuculllata as a surface plant

Going to experiment using pure RO and Seachem Equalibrium. Can anyone think of a reason why that would be inferior to using a mixture of RO and tap water?

 

[Mike Wise]

Because is costs more???