mouthbrooders

[Deedoo]

Hello !

I would like to know how many mouthbrooders dwarf cichlids species exist and which are they ?

Thank you and excuse my poor english :roll:

Deedoo

 

[kribs]

Apistogramma Malbrauter

 

[Z Man]

All the Pseudocrenilabrus species. (Philander, Multicolor, Nicholsi, Victoriae)

 

[Daniel L]

Chromidotilapia species, including Benitochromis nigrodorsalis. Most Oreochromis (Not too dwarf, I must agree!).

 

[tjudy]

I would include all the Malawi Labidochromis species as dwarf, and the Tanganyikan goby cichlids. If you place a size limit of 6 inches for 'dwarfism', you could probably through in the Malawi Cynotilapia, some Pseudotropheus and the Tanganyikan genera of Tropheus, Leptosoma and Ciprichromis.

I do not even want to attempt to name the Lake Victoria genera!

 

[Randall]

Dwarf Cichlid Mouthbrooders

Dear Deedoo,

Please don't worry about your English. I'm sure we all think it is quite excellent.

Among mouthbrooding dwarf cichlids, there are basically two types: ovophilic and larvophilic. The majority are ovophilic.

From South America there are two larvophilic mouthbrooding Apistogramma species with which I am aware, A. sp. "Maulbruter" and a similar species known in the American trade as A. sp. "Frank."*

Looking at the West and Central African soft water dwarf cichlids, there are many, most of which are ovophilic. The three larvophilic scientifically described exceptions are Limbochromis robertsi (Ghana), Benitochromis batesii (Cameroon) and the newly described Chromidotilapia mrac (Gabon). The later was known as C. sp. "Ngouni" or "Lambarene" in Europe.

The ovophilic mouthbrooders include

Benitochromis conjunctus
B. finleyi
B. nigrodoralis
B. riomuniensis
B. sp. "Eseka"
B. ufermanni

Chromidotilapia cavalliensis
C. elongata
C. guntheri guntheri
C. kingsleyae
C. linkei
C. mamonekenei
C. nana (Was C. sp. "Tchibanga II")
C. schoutedeni
C. melaniae (Was C. sp. "Shiloango" in Europe)
C. sp. "Atogafina" (Actually a color morph of C. kingsleyae)
C. sp. "Lualaba"

Parananochromis caudifasciatus
P. gabonicus
P. longirostris
P. sp. "Belinga"
P. sp. "Makokou"

Newly described Divandu albimarginatus is probably an ovophilic mouthbrooder as well.

All the best,

Randall Kohn

*Added 4/23/03: Please see subsequent post.

 

[Bissot_J]

Dwarf Cichlid Mouthbrooders

From South America there are two larvophilic mouthbrooding Apistogramma species with which I am aware, A. sp. "Maulbruter" and a similar species known in the American trade as A. sp. "Frank."

Randall Kohn

Randall ,

A. Sp. "Frank" really exist or it is a form of A. Sp. "Maulbruter" ?

do you have any pics ?

 

[Cichlids1]

Bissot_J,

I have a few pics of mine. The first row on this page: http://www.roundtownaquatics.com/new_pics.htm

They are from Aquarium Lima out of Peru. I've had some other people look at them and have been told they are Morado, Cruzi, and a couple others. Until I have a definate answer, they will be A. sp. Frank to me

As for the mouthbrooding part, I haven't seen it. Mine spawned in typical apisto fashion, in a cave with eggs stuck to the roof. 3 to 4 days later they hatched, and about 5 days after that they were free swimming. Very large spawns too, about 100 eggs each time. Would make mouthbrooding difficult, if these are the same A. sp. Frank Randall is refering to.



Ken

 

[Neil]

As I understand it, "Frank" is Morado or sp."Pebas", which is a cruzi group fish. Maulbruter is the only mouthbrooding Apistogramma species. However, there are 2 species-forms of "Maulbruter", a yellow-cheeked variety and a newer red-cheeked. These also go under several other names such as glaser 1 and glaser 2.

I have written an article on what I would consider to be a Dwarf Cichlid. This includes a general evaluation of the characteristics of a dwarf, as well as the general size as a limiting element.
http://www.apistogramma.com/whatis.htm
This does include a framework for evaluating all Dwarf Cichlids, not just those from South America and West Africa (which is typically the limit to which aquarists usually attribute this designation). I consider many other rift valley cichlids, etc. Dwarf Cichlids too. But I am not particularly knowledgeable about them.
tjudy wrote

I would include all the Malawi Labidochromis species as dwarf, and the Tanganyikan goby cichlids. If you place a size limit of 6 inches for 'dwarfism', you could probably through in the Malawi Cynotilapia, some Pseudotropheus and the Tanganyikan genera of Tropheus, Leptosoma and Ciprichromis.

Ted,
I would love to have a list of all genera that you consider to have species that would fall into the "dwarf" catagory. Not just mouthbrooders, but all applicable species, using the scheme I have laid down in the above article.
I you have the inclination or time sometime, please list them. The species list on these "hard water" fish is empty.
I would love other evaluations as well.
Thanks, Neil

 

[tjudy]

Neil,

Your criteria for what to consider a dwarf cichlid is thorough, but my personal preference would be to limit the criterion for dwarf designation to size. I do not agree with the use of not digging up substrate (Pelvicachromis species do that) as a criteria, nor with the elimination of fish that are particularly aggressive (like convict cichlids, which your article eliminates as a dwarf cichlid).

One thing to consider is that there may be different species in a genus that would qualify on size, though others do not. The obvious example is Crenicichla. C. regani and C. compressiceps are generally referred to as pikes, though most pikes are not dwarf in stature. I think that many people might draw the lines at genera, but there are several examples of individual species that could be exceptions.

I think that I would base my criteria on the size of fish at sexual maturity, and the maximum size average of wild collected fish. I would also use the size of the aquarium that the fish can be kept and bred in as part of the criteria as well. I would, however, include a special category of 'dwarf' for fish that meet the size requirement but require larger groups to be successfully kept and bred, and therefore need a larger aquarium.

Examples of that category would be the 'dwarf' Pseudotropheus species like P. saulosi and P. demasoni, and the Labidochromis species. Labidochromis in particular are (in my opinion) true dwarf cichlids from Lake Malawi. They rarely reach 10 cm, and are often breeding at 3 or 4 cm! They can be bred as single pairs, but do much better in larger groups. To a hobbyist who is keeping Pseudotropheus zebra, Labeotropheus fuellebourni or any of the other larger Malawi mbuna, the genera of Labidochromis is very dwarf.

I included the Tropheus species based upon size, though this genus needs larger tanks and larger groups to be successful.

Lake Tanganyika includes many species that are dwarf, including all the shell dwellers, the Neolamprologus and Julidochromis (several others as well).

Lake Victoria provides lots of examples of fish that get much larger in captivity than they do in the wild (based upon descriptions I have read anyway), but if you use the size at sexual maturity criterion, most are dwarf cichlids.

I think that it might be faster to name the species of cichlids that are NOT dwarf. There are probably fewer!!!

 

[Neil]

Ted,
There are certain attributes that most aquarists look for when deciding to work with a Dwarf Cichlid beyond the size of the specific fish or tank that they have. Therefore, I think it is important to differentiate more than the size of the fish.

I do not agree with the use of not digging up substrate (Pelvicachromis species do that) as a criteria,

I state in the article:
"No or minimal substrate excavation. This does not include limited cave digging associated with breeding."
Pelvicachromis, while fairly prolific diggers, usually limit their digging to a confined area during the process of preparing a cave for breeding, and not rearranging 1/3 of the substrate of the tank to expose a large portion of the bottom.

nor with the elimination of fish that are particularly aggressive (like convict cichlids, which your article eliminates as a dwarf cichlid).

Again, there are certain qualities that I see imoportant to accompany the Dwarf Cichlid status. A convicts' level of aggression is so high that it would preclude it from meeting several of the other criteria that I suggest. Even the smaller pike cichlids are not so much of a problem in regards to their disposition.

I don't deny that there are faults in try to catagorize such a subjective designation as "Dwarf Cichlid", but no one seems to have taken many of the factors into account that make a fish that so many of us are interested in. Pseudocrenilabrus species, for example, are wonderful little fish, but not recognized by most as a Dwarf Cichlid (which they clearly are). Julies and shell Dwellers seem to have also been overlooked simply by the water that they come from!

I think that it might be faster to name the species of cichlids that are NOT dwarf. There are probably fewer!!!

You are probably right. That is why I threw it out there for someone with way more knowledge than I about these fish. Thanks for the response.
Neil

 

[tjudy]

Again, there are certain qualities that I see imoportant to accompany the Dwarf Cichlid status. A convicts' level of aggression is so high that it would preclude it from meeting several of the other criteria that I suggest. Even the smaller pike cichlids are not so much of a problem in regards to their disposition.

The qualities that a hobbyist looks for in the fish that they keep are personal preferences. When I moved to Arizona, I sold 150 aquariums of 50 gallons or more.. I effectively made the dicision that I no longer wanted to keep large fish. With the exception of a display 110 (with Tropheus in it), all of my tanks are 40 gallons or less. Most are 20 gallons. So, my personal definition of dwarf cichlid basically includes any cichlid species that can be succesfully housed and bred in these small tanks, while still permitting them to show as much of their natural behavior as possible in captivity. I could keep and breed and adult pair of angels in a 20 gallon, but I do not consider that to be large enough to see angels behave naturally. A pair of angels will claim an entire 55 as territitory if they have it!

Maybe we are talking about a matter of perspective too. Neil keeps and breeds a LOT of Apistogramma species. I used to keep and breed a lot of Central American bruisers. To me, a convict is not particularly large or mean. There are several other Central American cichlids that I hear mentioned as dwarf (spirilum, spinosissimum), but they are as large as convicts, and just as mean. I think that they they are compared to other Central American fish like Veija species, and therefore considered dwarf.

 

[Randall]

Correction to Dwarf Cichlid Mouthbrooders

To the Forum:

It seems I've confused my American trade names. The larvophilic mouthbrooding Apistogramma species referenced in an earlier post should be A. sp. "Houswell" and not A. sp. "Frank."

"Houswell" is the trade name applied to a what is probably a color form of "Maulbruter" that was made available in the US toward the end of last year (2002). Both forms are wild caught from Peru.

Thanks everyone for pointing out the error. With all the rampant fanciful little trades names assigned to wild caught Apistogramma species, I cant' keep track.

Thanks much.

Randall Kohn