Male and female juveinata?

[Sardines]

Hello,
I was sold these as a pair of juveinata. Doing my research juveinata are often mcmaster.
And I tried to pick out a pair, don't know if I did or not.
Thanks for all your help.

 

[Sardines]

Sorry I misnamed them, species should be

Viejita​

not sure why I can't edit my first post.

 

[Aquaticloch]

Yes they look to me like a male and female macmasteri, true Viejita are not often seen in the hobby.

 

[Apistoguy52]

Interesting fish. Tough to say what they are in my opinion…caudal spot seems a bit to round to be macmasteri for me

 

[Frank Hättich]

It's a linebred strain of A. macmasteri. I have not much experience with sexing these color enhanched strains, but from what I have seen so far, even the second one could be a female.

 

[Sardines]

I was observing them with my morning coffee...I'm leaning towards two females as well. And they get along with each very well, so that behavior leads me towards two females as well.

Thanks everyone for the replies, I'm new here and this forum seems to be a great place.

 

[Sardines]

They have settled in a bit and I got a bunch of pictures. Leaning towards two females, but I'm not the best at sexing these.
I don't see much "pointedness" on the dorsal fin or color bars on the tail.

 

[MacZ]

The more colourful one is for sure a male, the other one... I can't say male or female with certainty.

They are both in bad shape. Really. Bad. Shape. Not just the fins, one seems to have a problem with inner parasites.

Edit: Oh, and for confirmation: Ordinary domestic A. macmasteri, only sold as Viejita. Probably one of the least fortunate trade names I've seen to date.

 

[Frank Hättich]

The more colourful one is for sure a male

Imo everything apart from the red color points towards female. And coloration doesn't mean much in these color enhanched strains – just think of how colorful some linebred cacatuoides females can be...

 

[MacZ]

Imo everything apart from the red color points towards female. And coloration doesn't mean much in these color enhanched strains – just think of how colorful some linebred cacatuoides females can be...

Interestingly the A. macmasteri strains that are "just" enhanced, like the fish above, are relatively easy to sex. If you look at these:

Those are the ones I'd not dare to sex. And you know the infuriating thing about that image? It's the picture in the Wikipedia article on Apistogramma viejita.

 

[MacZ]

Edit: Also, are we really talking about the same fish? I meant this one. Considering the bad shape of the fins I only have to go by the colour.

 

[Frank Hättich]

Interestingly the A. macmasteri strains that are "just" enhanced, like the fish above, are relatively easy to sex. If you look at these

Yes of course not all color enhanched strains are the same when it comes to sexing. I didn't meant to imply that color is generally useless in every color enhanched strain of some species.

And you know the infuriating thing about that image? IIt's the picture in the Wikipedia article on Apistogramma viejita.

Very sad, especially because true viejita are steadily in the hobby again since almost a decade now...

Also, are we really talking about the same fish? I meant this one. Considering the bad shape of the fins I only have to go by the colour.

Yes we are talking about the same fish. The posterior soft part of the dorsal fin doesn't look damaged to me,, just rounded.

 

[Sardines]

The more colourful one is for sure a male, the other one... I can't say male or female with certainty.

They are both in bad shape. Really. Bad. Shape. Not just the fins, one seems to have a problem with inner parasites.

Edit: Oh, and for confirmation: Ordinary domestic A. macmasteri, only sold as Viejita. Probably one of the least fortunate trade names I've seen to date.

Yes, I noticed that as well, The tougher looking one is eating fine, this tank gets a lot of water changes so they'll come around. And they will not get fed for the next 4 or 5 days so they'll be hunger and I'm going to start an internal parasite food.

This LFS is usually good about their fish but this one looked tough from day one.

 

[MacZ]

The posterior soft part of the dorsal fin doesn't look damaged to me,, just rounded.

I first thought so too, but then , comparing the pictures, I noticed the fish has fin rot or at least inflamed damaged fins, likely due to aggression at the store. You can see it in basically all fins, but it becomes really apparent in the caudal and the pectorals in my opinion.

this tank gets a lot of water changes so they'll come around.

Really hope so. Unbelievable numbers of the domestic fish succumb to such "everyday" diseases, sadly.

 

[Mike Wise]

On this one, I agree with Frank: 2 females.

 

[Sardines]

Visited the LFS and they had macmasteri and they were willing to sell me one male(usually they only sell pairs).
BUT it's definitely a male.
I've given up on the juveinata as I think they are all just some cross of macmasteri as others have said.