Looking for advice

[georgedv]

I just got six (of each)Agassizi dbl reds, Cacs triple reds and baenschi all from David Soares. (GREAT QUALITY AND SHIPPING CARE)

Any ways, I placed each group in their own densely planted 29 gal tank with a few platies. There are two coconut shells one on each end and lots of wood covered with java moss in the middle creating more hiding places plus all sorts of stem and bush plants along the back to create more plant cover.

It has been three days since they made it here but they are all still shy and hiding. The cacs and aggies are showing progress. The baenschi are really hiding...almost invisible. I am concerned about them.

Nitrates and Nitrites are at the zero (good) end of the scale that my kits show. pH is at 7.0 and hardness is less then 20ppm. I have yeast CO2 in all tanks. I was hoping the CO2 would drop the pH, but it has not. I plan to add some bags of peat soon to lower the pH a few points.

At the moment feeding happens once a day. Consists of small amounts of Tetra flakes, brine shrimp pellets and live bbs.

That wraps this up. I hope you can spot what I can change or add to help these guys. Any of your experienced suggestions are welcome. If this site can't help......

thanks
george

 

[Kruz]

Sounds like there happy. You could low the PH some more with alder cones or some oak leaves or almond leaves to start. could also get them on live food to like brine shrimp or white/grindal worms i like white worms better. Also you live in the south so you can get to mosquito larvae. larvae is my fav and it free. Just set out a 5gal bucket half full of water and a few days later you got free food man. That's a start good luck George.

 

[DBlauj]

Do you have any dither fish with them. That always helps out with the shyness of fishes.

 

[georgedv]

Thanks for all the input Kruz. I like mosquitos too...strange i'm the only one who feels this way in my neighborehood. I didn't think about adding oak leaves to lower pH. I have some, but they are a year old. i wonder if they will have the same effect? I am going to try it anyways. DBlaij, I use platies for dithers.

I am glad the set ups are ok and no big blunders has been made. I wonder if this site, with the help of its members can't build a profile database on dwrf cichlids. The internet has lots of info, but its scattered and mostly shallow. That ofcoarse is just my opinion.

Again tanks and more input is very welcome.

george

 

[Kruz]

lol no problem man. I like Oak leaves to looks kool and there not so big as the almond leaves. The leaves leach out tannins humic compounds witch is great for fish. Its a great for fish to spawn and hid out in corydora catfish love them. The dead and decaying leaves provided aid in fry survival. If the Oak leaves are a year old it should be all good. When your picking them off the ground make sure there not green. I make sure there all dry. I boiled mine first for about 5 to 10 minute stir them up a bet. Some people take the water and put it in there tank, it's up to you. It's at a super low PH so be careful it like 4 or something. Oh yeah Alder cones mostly the some thing. DBlauj dither fish was a good one, for got about that one.

Yah I hear what your saying. that would be kool hopefully that helps you out some, but it just more in detail about what I was saying before Kool George have a good one.

 

[slimbolen99]

A couple thoughts:
- What is the amount of water flow in your tank? Apistos like very little current.
- You say you're running CO2, which means live plants, which means high(er) power lights; could be a situation where they came from a dark tank (breeders can't afford to run lights on tanks!).
- More cover -- even with plants, the oak leaves are a good idea, although, they aren't going to lower your pH drastically in the short term.
- Platies seem like a decent dither, but can be fairly rambunctious. In the long term, you might rethink into something not quite as large and a little more mellow (pencilfish are great).

Sounds like you have some great setups. You'll have to post some pictures.

 

[Kruz]

A couple thoughts:
- What is the amount of water flow in your tank? Apistos like very little current.
- You say you're running CO2, which means live plants, which means high(er) power lights; could be a situation where they came from a dark tank (breeders can't afford to run lights on tanks!).
- More cover -- even with plants, the oak leaves are a good idea, although, they aren't going to lower your pH drastically in the short term.
- Platies seem like a decent dither, but can be fairly rambunctious. In the long term, you might rethink into something not quite as large and a little more mellow (pencilfish are great).

Sounds like you have some great setups. You'll have to post some pictures.

Yes I would agree with that 100%. When you boil your Oak leaves you can keep that water black water. Which I do I add to the water in water changes or when need. Just make sure when getting your black water extract to filter it through something like a microfine pad to get the little BS out of it but it's optional. So if you have higher PH like me you can adjust it, or if you PH in your tank is to low you only have to add a little bet. I don't like to keep my extract more then a mouth out side the tank.

 

[georgedv]

You are right slimbolen99, those platies are a bit aggressive, especially during feeding time. I can't believe I never noticed this before. Especially with more timid apistos like the aggies and the baenschi. I guess I'll need to get some pencil fish. I have never seen them in big box stores...no lfs has survived corporate lfs in this area.
The three 29G tanks sit on two shelves side by side and two sets of two 32 watt 6500K fluorescents are attached above them. Is it possible for these three apistos to adapt to a brighter environment or is it their nature to look for more shade?
The only water movement is from a sponge filter. I do not have power heads...and quite frankly I would like to avoid the expense. Are there any other options...maybe an air stone?

I like the idea of using the water after boiling the oak leaves thanks again Kruz.

Once they settle, obviously I want to try my hand on breeding them. Nothing big, but just to have some stock for myself. I have three females and three males of each apisto (that's what I was told). Should I leave them in their 29g tanks and let them breed and form colonies....waite for pairs to form and then move them to another tank (all I have are 10gal left)... I have breed cacs before in a 29g tank (over 30 cacs mostly males) and the colony lasted about three years. Then I took it apart when I had only 8 females and 20 plus males. What a mess....

Again I am hoping to encourage those with experience on these three apistos and help develop this thread.

thanks again

george

 

[Kruz]

I like pencil fish the coral red are my fav. Any pencil will do, I also use pygmy corydoras cats, good at cleaning up the left over food, most cory's will do. I know you can order some pencil fish but shipping can be killer. I'll get back to you on that. For lighting I've seen some people run some high lighting on there Apisto tanks and have them still breed. Including metal halide of course on bigger tanks. IMO its better to keep it as natural as possible. One of my tank's an ex-reef tank, it's a 29 gallon oceanic biocube it has two dual compacts 36 watts. I just took one of them out. I have about 40% of my water surface covered with water lettuce. Its good for diffused light/shade. Me personally I don't like sponge filter unless it's a fry only tank but that's just me. I would at least get a hang on the back filter IMO. You don't need it, people do great with out all the time. It just has more flow and better filtering power. You can always get a small power head. A small canister filter would be great like a Penn Plax cascade filter 500 or a Eheim canister filter. A lot of them euro guys like them. I like to my support my country so I go Penn Plax made in the U.S.A.. Never had one brake on me in 10 years, and there easy to mod.

Man that's a high male to female ratio on them cacs. I know with a lot of species the temperature has a lot to do with that.
Well George you should throw up some pic's of what you got.

 

[georgedv]

I know the ratios are off. I am hopping for pairs. My thoughts are; regarding the aggies, keep a male with two females in the 29g, move a male & female in a 10g and keep one male as a spare. As for the cacs two males and two females in the 29 and one male & female in a 10. As for the baenschi I need to do some reading on them.

This week I am doing away with flake food and adding, frozen mosquito larva and Mysis shrimp and spirulina discs twice a week. I feed live brine shrimp five days a week and brine shrimp pellets every day....is this too fatty? Because of my work schedule 5 days I only feed once...in small amounts and an hour later again small amounts. The other two days I feed at noon and at 10PM when I get home.

During the winter I do water changes every two weeks 50%, but during spring, summer and fall every week again 50%.

I have read many threads in this forum and have come to the understanding as long as the fish are not wild, water parameters are flexible (except for water cleanliness). That's my focus plus a few things to keep the water soft and pH below 6.8. I will keep posting as I note things regarding my routine. Please feel free to correct me...I need much advice!!

As for photos...I will try today to get some.

Thanks to all for your help

george

 

[Mike Wise]

... adding, frozen mosquito larva

Just a question; are these frozen mosquito larvae 'black' mosquito larvae or 'white' mosquito larvae (glassworms)? If black, what brand are they. I've never seen them in the US.

 

[Kruz]

For your tank setup IMO it's great. Sometimes when you have two pair of fish like your cacs, the male can get a little aggressive with each other. This may or may not happen. Away with the flakes, I'm not big on them either. There is some good flake food out there though. For fatty food your fine. White worm or Grindal worm are fatty, but fatty is not bad every so often. For feeding times that's all good. Some people are on a strict feed regimen. Most fish eat at sunrise and sunset or when opportunity arises. For at those time are when insects are very active.
For water changes 50% is not bad for your fish that's what my buddy does and his Apisto's look fine . I like to do about 25% every week in the summer. In the winter which is the rainy season I do more like 35/45% more rain equals more water flow.
This is just what I do man, sure there's a hundred ways guys in the trade do there water changes. this is just what I do. I would agree with you if the fish are not wild, water parameters are flexible. They do flex a little bit in wild also but you know. Below 6.8 is good some Apisto's need to go low if your looking to breed wild or not. There have been reports of Apisto's breeding in a PH of 7.0 plus I'm sure not to much passed that. Sounds like you doing good man have a good one

 

[georgedv]

Sorry for taking so long Mike. I was serving White Mosquito Larvae (AHA Glassworms). Now I am serving Bloodworms (Red Mosquito Larvae). Both are San Fran Bay Brand (Sally's).

 

[Mike Wise]

Darn, I was hoping you had stumbled onto someone who sold black mosquito larvae in the US. Oh well ... Does anyone know where I can buy frozen black mosquito larvae in the US? Sometimes I'm tempted to produce my own, but I have no way to quick freeze the larvae and, considering we have mosquito-borne West Nile Virus here, I don't think the neighbors would appreciate it.

 

[Kruz]

LOL that's funny Mike. Yeah you can quick freeze them with know problem. It's good for the winter when it's to dame cold and there is no mosquito larvae. I do it with my fishes from time to time. You can do it with dry ice with no problem it only takes about 30 minutes. Just freezing it in your freezer takes all day and takes the freshness out of it,plus the nutrients is slowly decaying. It's not much different then doing it with human food. Hopefully that helps if not I can go more in detail.

 

[Mike Wise]

Good idea on flash freezing. Now any ideas on how to get rid of West Nile?

 

[shorty2181]

Hey Mike if you are collecting the mosquito larvae then you are actually helping eradicate disease by reducing potential numbers of Mosquitos in the environment. The more you collect the more you are doing your part in aiding to get rid of this disease. More than most people can say.