'lipstick' pencilfish ??

[anewbie]

Does anyone know what species 'lipstick' pencil fish might be - no picture - but i've asked them to send me one and will post it if they do so - this is the listing:

Nannostomus sp. - Tropical Freshwater Fish For Sale Online

Nannostomus sp. | Healthy, happy, quality tropical freshwater aquarium fish for sale online! Flat rate shipping and quick order turn around. Largest selection of rare and common fish in stock since 1999.

www.wetspottropicalfish.com

 

[rasmusW]

Hmmm… my guess is n. Marilynae, but not sure. Looking forward to see the pictures.

-r

 

[anewbie]

This is the picture they sent; looks a little like beckfordi:

 

[Mazan]

They do look a lot like beckfords, with red lips…maybe a geographical variation or a species as yet undescribed, presumably Sao Gabriel is the collection location in Brazil…

 

[Mazan]

Or maybe they look closer to trifasciatus, difficult to tell…

 

[rasmusW]

They do look a lot like beckfords, with red lips…maybe a geographical variation or a species as yet undescribed, presumably Sao Gabriel is the collection location in Brazil…

My thoughts aswell. I said marylinae because seriously fish listed those with type locality in sao gabriel.

-r

 

[A Timbers Fan]

Here you go...no idea on size but I'm guessing around the size of trifasciata but the fins and body do remind me of marilynae and anduzei.

And will probably get more colorful as they mature.

 

[MacZ]

Firmly within the variability of N. trifasciatus to me. Interestingly N. marilynae have been sold as N. Sp. "Sao Gabriel" before, but the pictures are clear to me.

 

[anewbie]

I have a lot of n. marilynae and these are larger and not shaped the same so i don't think they are related to n. marilynae. These have fatter bodies and are more straight.

As for trifasciatus - they lack the upper black line which contributed to the name of trifasciatus. Doesn't mean it isn't just a pigment variation but ....

 

[Mazan]

I believe that some pencilfish species are known to have colour variations in different locations and may eventually turn out to be different species. I don’t know how important the three bands are for id, but apart from this detail they most seem to resemble trifasciatus, but maybe they are something new? Are you thinking of getting some @anewbie?

 

[MacZ]

As for trifasciatus - they lack the upper black line which contributed to the name of trifasciatus. Doesn't mean it isn't just a pigment variation but ....

It's not missing in any picture in this thread. It's just not very pronounced. The stripes can vary by location, subpopulation, mood and lighting.
Usually the stripe on the belly is quite faint and the one at the top melts a lot of times with the darker back colouration.

 

[Mazan]

Yes that is what I was thinking initially, the stripes are not always very visible all of the time.

 

[Mike Wise]

Dr. Stanley Weitzman, the foremost authority on the genus - and a 'lumper', always lumped similar populations under one species. None of his protegees ever wanted to openly contradict his opinions out of respect for this great ichthyologist. I would not be surprised that genetic studies will discover many of these species' populations will turn out to be separate species just like populations of Apistogramma.

 

[Mazan]

Exactly, I found this paper, I have not read it in great detail yet, but it suggests that there are many more species that have previously been lumped together, particularly in the N. eques, N. marginatus and N. trifasciatus complexes.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0112217&type=printable

 

[Mazan]

Dr. Stanley Weitzman, the foremost authority on the genus - and a 'lumper', always lumped similar populations under one species. None of his protegees ever wanted to openly contradict his opinions out of respect for this great ichthyologist. I would not be surprised that genetic studies will discover many of these species' populations will turn out to be separate species just like populations of Apistogramma.

Exactly, I found this paper,
DNA Barcoding in Pencilfishes (Lebiasinidae: Nannostomus) Reveals Cryptic Diversity across the Brazilian Amazon
I have not read it in great detail yet, but it suggests that there are many more species that have previously been lumped together, particularly in the N. eques, N. marginatus and N. trifasciatus complexes. (I tried to link the article but its waiting moderator approval)

 

[anewbie]

I believe that some pencilfish species are known to have colour variations in different locations and may eventually turn out to be different species. I don’t know how important the three bands are for id, but apart from this detail they most seem to resemble trifasciatus, but maybe they are something new? Are you thinking of getting some @anewbie?

I have 8 arriving. I will put them with a small group of marilyn in a 29 and see what becomes of them.

 

[anewbie]

Exactly, I found this paper,
DNA Barcoding in Pencilfishes (Lebiasinidae: Nannostomus) Reveals Cryptic Diversity across the Brazilian Amazon
I have not read it in great detail yet, but it suggests that there are many more species that have previously been lumped together, particularly in the N. eques, N. marginatus and N. trifasciatus complexes. (I tried to link the article but its waiting moderator approval)

A 'friend' of mine on another forum indicated it is likely nannostomus will suffer the same fate as cory and be split into multiple genus. He said there is some indication that many groups of (n. marginatus for example) are actually different species gentically.

 

[Mike Wise]

Thank you for the reference. I find it very informative and it doesn't even include samples from the western Amazon other than N. nortenthaleri and N. rubrocaudatus. I find it interesting that there are thoughts of splitting the genus into multiple genera. I remember when N. eques, N. harrisoni and N. unifasciatus were listed as the genus or subgenus Poecilobrycon. Times change. When will we see Pintoichthys trifaciatus again?

 

[anewbie]

A couple of pictures - this is 3 hours after i received them so they might colour up more; oddly they have pink lips/mouth:

 

[anewbie]

A knowledgeable person mentioned they were likely a variant of n. erythrurus:

This write up shows the different between erythrurus and trifs - but in truth who knows - i don't think there is dna analysis so it talkes about visible markings.

Nannostomus erythrurus - Aquarium Glaser GmbH

The three-banded pencilfish, Nannostomus trifasciatus, is one of the most popular ornamental fish. It combines numerous characteristics that make it desirable: beautiful coloration, peaceful nature, small size, and easy feeding. However, few people know that the name “Nannostomus trifasciatus”...

www.aquariumglaser.de