'lipstick' pencilfish ??

[Mazan]

He said there is some indication that many groups of (n. marginatus for example) are actually different species gentically.

Yes, that is basically what that paper says, I doubt they will be split into different genuses, but I think that what we know as marginatus, trafasciatus and eques in particular will each be split into several more species.

A couple of pictures - this is 3 hours after i received them so they might colour up more; oddly they have pink lips/mouth:


View attachment 17238View attachment 17237View attachment 17236

Nice, you can see why “lipstick” on some of them at least. Do they all have pink lips or are males and females different?

 

[anewbie]

Yes, that is basically what that paper says, I doubt they will be split into different genuses, but I think that what we know as marginatus, trafasciatus and eques in particular will each be split into several more species.

Nice, you can see why “lipstick” on some of them at least. Do they all have pink lips or are males and females different?

Don't know because i don't know which are male and which are female also be aware that the ones with no red are marilyn that were in the aquarium. The two species grouped up readily.

 

[anewbie]

Nice, you can see why “lipstick” on some of them at least. Do they all have pink lips or are males and females different?

To be clear all 8 has pink lips but as i noted before i have no clue how to sex them.

 

[anewbie]

Small update now that i have these for a few days one thing i noticed is they seem to be territorial with the larger ones chasing the smaller ones away - very different than the other species i own that behave in harmony.

 

[anewbie]

Here is an image of one nasty territorial pencil fish (btw what other species are territorial):

That little devil is pushing all the other of the same species left (the n. marilyn naturally hang out near the matten filter eating more algae or biofilm). While not a video every now and then one will attempt to move further right and he will actively attack it.

(there is a m/f a. sp ladislo ?iii?) in the back hiding as they always do - they come out when i leave the room and dash back when i enter).

 

[MacZ]

(btw what other species are territorial):

I can confirm N. eques and N. unifasciatus.

 

[anewbie]

I can confirm N. eques and N. unifasciatus.

I did not notice territorial behavior with my group of N. unifasciatus but i only had a few in a large aquarium. I don't much care for them as they are quite large though someone showed me pictures of some samples that were red instead of black markings. In case it is not obvious i had the black variety (not sure if that impacts their behavior - i.e, if different oclour form are the same species or actually different species).

 

[Mazan]

Before I got mortenthaleri I kept reading that males were pretty aggressive to each other, but I never found that to be the case, occasional threat displays but no real chasing or fighting.

 

[anewbie]

Before I got mortenthaleri I kept reading that males were pretty aggressive to each other, but I never found that to be the case, occasional threat displays but no real chasing or fighting.

Yea i never observed much aggression with my group of 20 morthenthaleri in a 65. Not that i paid a huge amount of attention to them but with the lipstick whatever species it is hard to miss this behavior when everytime you walk over you see one attacking anyone who approaches.

Now that i redid the tank with morthenathaleri and added the d39 i watch it a lot more though their numbers have dropped a bit - i havent' explicitly counted them but i think i have 12 or 15 left. These days i've been overjoyed with n. margiartus and variants as having lots of colour yet staying small and tranquil but still a bit more active than marilyn:

Also i think i will start adding more of these little axelrodia riesei (though i'm concern some of the larger species of apisto might eat them):

Everyone sez they hide but for some reason mine are quite active and out in the open all the time.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

btw what other species are territorial

I think they all are <"https://apistogramma.com/forum/threads/new-tank-108l.25137/page-4#post-125225">.

Also i think i will start adding more of these little axelrodia riesei

They also <"don't like one another">.

cheers Darrel

 

[anewbie]

.

They also <"don't like one another">.

cheers Darrel

Thank you for the warning i'll have to keep an eye on them - mine have not yet shown aggression or territoral behavior but they are likely not mature yet.

 

[Mike Wise]

Appears that you have one very rogue fish there. They do occur. I knew someone who had a Silver-tip tetra (Hasemania nana) that forced every fish in a 5'/1.5m tank into about 1'/30cm side of the tank. You do know that Lebiasinidae (pencilfish and related genera) are related to predatory Erythrinidae (Trahiras and Wolffish). I guess some of the nastiness of these bigger cousins has rubbed off.

 

[Ben Rhau]

I've said this before, but I think it's very difficult to distinguish behavior differences among similar species within a genus. Evidence is all anecdotal, and both individual disposition and context (physical and social) are huge confounding factors.

Different genus, but similar to what Mike said, I've kept a killifish species that's widely considered among the most peaceful and suitable for beginners. My experience confirmed that, but I did have a single specimen that would kill any other fish its size or smaller in any tank it was in. He earned a solo tank.

For Nannostomus, I've also kept several, and they all did how a clear pecking order and mild displays of aggression.

 

[anewbie]

Appears that you have one very rogue fish there. They do occur. I knew someone who had a Silver-tip tetra (Hasemania nana) that forced every fish in a 5'/1.5m tank into about 1'/30cm side of the tank. You do know that Lebiasinidae (pencilfish and related genera) are related to predatory Erythrinidae (Trahiras and Wolffish). I guess some of the nastiness of these bigger cousins has rubbed off.

I did not know their relationship to other genus; i will also note that at least with the lipstick i have a 2nd group of 7 i think in a 65 and they too are showing the same territorial behavior so i suspect it is not rogue fish but a norm. As to @Ben Rhau I had not noticed any serious territorial or aggressive behavior with the nother species of nannostomus i have which include marilyn, margitus, epesi, uni, and morthwhatever (coral red). That is part of the reason they took me by surprise as they are the first really aggressive species from this genus i've owned. I've had the marilyn, epesi, uni and morthwhatever for at least 18 months without any real observation of undesired behavior so i'm fairly sure they are all mature. The epesi and marilyn are esp prone to grouping up - more so the marilyn who will form a tight ball whenever i do a water change though they naturally hang out together most of the time.

 

[Ben Rhau]

As to @Ben Rhau I had not noticed any serious territorial or aggressive behavior with the nother species of nannostomus i have which include marilyn, margitus, epesi, uni, and morthwhatever (coral red).

Yes, what I'm saying is that one may expect different results with different individuals in different tanks.

 

[Mazan]

I am sure that is true. I haven’t seen any serious aggression from any of the pencilfish I have kept, and marginatus seem the most peaceful and my favourites so far. My ruby tetras are neither aggressive nor shy. The most aggressive and very territorial tetras I have kept were emperor tetras.

 

[jorgeopl]

I have a pretty well planted 80l tank and recently added some beckfordis. The left third of the tank is now the property of one evil male. Even Otos get chased away unless they're hugging the hardscape.

 

[anewbie]

The ones i think are male seem to have a much stronger gold bar and more bold colours in general. Whether this is true dimorphism or jsut the fish asserting dominance i'm not sure:

 

[anewbie]

Here is an updated picture of the lipsticks - them males have a lot of flare - i've been told they are closely related to n. trifasciatus if not the same species:

 

[Phil_1983]

Beautiful fish!