Is a. sp d51 available for import ?

[anewbie]

It's actually pictures of D51. Tom also has some pictures on his site: https://www.tomc.no/fish.aspx?fishIndexID=2608&gruppeID=1

ok then i guess his d52 comment was a typo It is weird how a little change in lighting and a typo in # can change a species ....

 

[Jacobus]

I read 'HE posted pictures..........

'He' Newbie is me. You could have directed your comment to me and not the community. And of course no need to thank me. I sent you these pictures gladly.

Indeed I incorrectly said pictures are of the A. sp. D52. But as I have both D51 en D52 I tend to sometimes confuse the two. Sorry. And thanks for the correction Frank.

 

[anewbie]

I read 'HE posted pictures..........

'He' Newbie is me. You could have directed your comment to me and not the community. And of course no need to thank me. I sent you these pictures gladly.

Indeed I incorrectly said pictures are of the A. sp. D52. But as I have both D51 en D52 I tend to sometimes confuse the two. Sorry. And thanks for the correction Frank.

I'm sorry i thought it was just following the thread who he represented I meant no insult and I am thankful you posted the pictures.

Of course it begs the question just how similar d51 is to d52 - the species list (tom's website) actually seems to indicate not a lot is known about d52 other than it is very passive. The only species i have close to d51 is the sp bluketa which is also very passive though perhaps just coincidence.

 

[Jacobus]

Yes A. sp.D52 is a very different Apisto. Different from D51 that is. D 51 makes you think of uaupesi or flabellicauda or lineata. D52 is, well you could call it passive, that is my experience too. They stay in their hiding places/holes all day (and night?)
D51 I would certainly not call passive as it moves about a lot, but preferably out of (my) sight I am afraid. They are cautious, shy. Funny enough A. flabellicauda, which is similar to D51 in appearance, is not at all shy. It is rather curious and inquisitive.

 

[anewbie]

Yes A. sp.D52 is a very different Apisto. Different from D51 that is. D 51 makes you think of uaupesi or flabellicauda or lineata. D52 is, well you could call it passive, that is my experience too. They stay in their hiding places/holes all day (and night?)
D51 I would certainly not call passive as it moves about a lot, but preferably out of (my) sight I am afraid. They are cautious, shy. Funny enough A. flabellicauda, which is similar to D51 in appearance, is not at all shy. It is rather curious and inquisitive.

I mean passive in lack of aggression for conspicuous - i have a sp bluketa which is also a very sturdy curious fish - they are not beggers but they also don't hide much and seem to like to explore changes to their enviornment. I started with 2 wc ones and now have 10 or 15 in a 65 with a few otto - they look almost indentical to lineta which an article described as a fish that was curious though it does not talk about aggression level. In my case the female will of course chase away f1 or dithers when breeding but not very far or very aggressively and in truth the f1 don't seem to eat frys (very different than the a. wolli or winkelfleck which have no problems snacking on frys) which of course leads to large populations. I've been thinning out the bluketa but i think i can safely keep 8 or so in the 65 without too much issue - the males will display to each other but again i see little in the way of attacks or chasing - it seems the smaller one always ack it is smaller and backs off and that ends the conflict. The winkelfleck for example the male has no problem chasing other males quite far (they are in a 100 which is 48x24 - my units are gallons and inches). I do find the larger aquariums work better esp if you hang on to a few frys and the species i keep for a while get move to larger homes though my space is nearly exhausted so now i have to pick and choose. For my last 65 i think i will remove the ib's and put in the d39 which is a very nice looking fish but i'm finding much more aggressive than described on tom's page and i'm hopeful the additional space will make life easier.

 

[Jacobus]

Ah yes, passive as lack of aggression. True, A. sp. D52 is quite peaceful.

 

[Tom C]

And who is Daniel? I presume he is a local guide of sort ?

When I was first contacted by Daniel (biologist, from Bogota), more than a decade ago, he had several unidentified Apistogramma which he had found, to show me. To keep track of them, and to honor the collector, I gave them a "D" (Daniel) number. When we then started traveling and exploring Colombia together, finding many new species, we continued with this naming practice. Later on Daniel has found several assumed new species alone or together with others, we gave them a D-number too.
In recent years, we have also hired local fishermen to look for Apistogramma in places that we believe are promising and unexplored, but too dangerous for us to travel to. If they find (supposedly) new species, we also give them a D-number.
All Apistogramma with a D-number are from Colombia.
Another reason for using D-numbers, instead of using an A. sp. "River/stream/area/village" name, is to hide the location where the fish were collected (this information is available to sciense/scientists). We have very good reasons for keeping the fishing grounds a secret, I don't have time to write about this here and now.

Utaka had young fish (F1, F2?) from a Dutch breeder who decided to stop breeding, for a while at least.
I got mine from him too.

I gave the Dutch breeder both wild-caught and F1 specimens when we met in 2023. He bred both, but found the F1 generation to be the easiest to breed and most productive. But I can't say whether what you got is F1, F2 (or possibly F3).

D51 I would certainly not call passive as it moves about a lot, but preferably out of (my) sight I am afraid. They are cautious, shy. Funny enough A. flabellicauda, which is similar to D51 in appearance, is not at all shy. It is rather curious and inquisitive.

I have "some" A. sp. "D51":

There is occasionally a bit of sparring between the males

but never any violent episodes.

I find that A. sp. "D51", as a species, is not shy at all here. Kept in pairs they can be a bit withdrawn, but never shy. Kept in larger groups, there is absolutely no shyness here.

 

[Jacobus]

That could be it Tom: I only have a pair. When I move about ib the room with aquaria they withdraw.
Nice picture with 'some' D51's.
Off the record: at what water values do you get eggs and fry? (pH and EC).

 

[Tom C]

Off the record: at what water values do you get eggs and fry? (pH and EC).

pH between 4 and 5, EC around 70 µS/cm.

Funny observation:

In a batch of around 80 fry from this female

there were 3 different "forms" of fry (for several months). I had not seen this earlier.

However, they all grew up to be "normal" looking D51s.

And in this species, males are sometimes allowed to take care of a few fry too:

I wish you good luck with yours, Jacobus!

 

[anewbie]

pH between 4 and 5, EC around 70 µS/cm.

Funny observation:

In a batch of around 80 fry from this female

there were 3 different "forms" of fry (for several months). I had not seen this earlier.

However, they all grew up to be "normal" looking D51s.

And in this species, males are sometimes allowed to take care of a few fry too:

I wish you good luck with yours, Jacobus!

Kind of wish they were available for import; in truth they sound very similar to the sp bluketa in many ways; and i guess lineta. wonderful fishes. I should have gotten into this sort of thing 40 years ago when i was more eager to travel.

 

[Jacobus]

Thanks Tom. The different forms of fry are indeed interesting.
pH 4-5 is quite low. Let me see how to achieve this. EC 80 is no problem although when using acids for the extra low pH, it wil rise. I guess a lower EC (using rainwater or water from anion-kation exchange) and using peat might work.

 

[anewbie]

Thanks Tom. The different forms of fry are indeed interesting.
pH 4-5 is quite low. Let me see how to achieve this. EC 80 is no problem although when using acids for the extra low pH, it wil rise. I guess a lower EC (using rainwater or water from anion-kation exchange) and using peat might work.

Without acid but using ro water and a few leaves with some peat in the sump (in filter bags - not a lot of peat approx $5 worth); i was able to get ph around 4.6-4.7 (there might be inaccuracies in the ph as i never trust these ph pens) after a couple of months; the ec though runs a lot lower around 22. In truth the aquariums with heavy plant load seem to have lower ec; while some of my aquariums have ec 40 or 50 most of the ones with good plant load stay below 30. I did try acid once but decided i didn't like it much and a bit of patience seemed to work better.

For ec i use the hanna pen which seems fairly accurate.

 

[Jacobus]

Thanks Tom. I also prefer peat+patience over using acids.
Thanks