Interesting little tetra (Trochilocharax ornatus)

[anewbie]

I picked up a small group of these about a month ago and another group today. They are stated to be a little smaller than morse code tetra and similar price point - they might be a lot smaller i'm not sure as the ones i received are marginally larger than a month old guppy fry. I'll post a ?better? picture in a day or two as the group in the aquarium has coloured up a bit. They have two behavioral differences from the morse code tetra 'side being smaller. First they stay very close to the top where as the morse code i have tend to range from top to mid point; and they seem to form a tight school that constantly move. Not sure if this behavior will change as they age.

 

[Mazan]

I’ve seen pictures of these, they look lovely, fairly transparent but also with various iridescent (I think) colours, probably why they are called hummingbird tetras. It will be interesting to see how they mature, I wish I could get some!

 

[anewbie]

For people who know a lot more than myself i've run into an oddity with these fishes as shown by this picture:

While not great the one at the top right corner is from purchase one (a group of 12) and the one in the middle is from purchase 2 a group of 8. The thing is that all the members of the first group (12) are clear and all the members of group 2 (8) are cloudy. If you look on aquarium glass website (i can no longer see the species there but someone else forwarded me pictures from the website) they have both types. The part that is confusing me is the seller (wetspot) says both group were caught at the same location but to get 12 fishes of one type in one order and 8 the other type in the other order begs the question if it is just random variation.

 

[anewbie]

For people who know a lot more than myself i've run into an oddity with these fishes as shown by this picture:
View attachment 16912
While not great the one at the top right corner is from purchase one (a group of 12) and the one in the middle is from purchase 2 a group of 8. The thing is that all the members of the first group (12) are clear and all the members of group 2 (8) are cloudy. If you look on aquarium glass website (i can no longer see the species there but someone else forwarded me pictures from the website) they have both types. The part that is confusing me is the seller (wetspot) says both group were caught at the same location but to get 12 fishes of one type in one order and 8 the other type in the other order begs the question if it is just random variation.

wetspot confirmed (gotta give an a+ for their support) that both lot came from the same import.

 

[A Timbers Fan]

I don't think I've seen it with T. ornatus (maybe due to bias of limited imports), but I have seen it in other translucent fish like Protocheirodon pi. They tend to get pale when stressed usually immediately after catching or touching. In my experience, they don't last long after that. It's one of the risks with importing or buying these types of fish, and part of their higher cost. They may not be as bad as a Lamprichthys tanganicanus (I've heard tales of fish dying literally due to the "stress" of chasing them briefly with a net!), but they are still small, relatively "weak" fish.

I have no doubts they are from the same import. They get imported once every few years. I would have more suspicions of perhaps a rougher journey to you for any one of the myriad reasons. It's probably nothing you did unless you handled them roughly or sped through the acclimation. I had a group of P. pi mentioned above, and I lost 3x moving them from one tank to another (identical water parameters, in net for maybe 10 seconds).

Good luck! They are really cool fish and look great in planted tanks. You probably have to work harder to notice them in blackwater, but I bet they'd be cool there too.

 

[anewbie]

I don't think I've seen it with T. ornatus (maybe due to bias of limited imports), but I have seen it in other translucent fish like Protocheirodon pi. They tend to get pale when stressed usually immediately after catching or touching. In my experience, they don't last long after that. It's one of the risks with importing or buying these types of fish, and part of their higher cost. They may not be as bad as a Lamprichthys tanganicanus (I've heard tales of fish dying literally due to the "stress" of chasing them briefly with a net!), but they are still small, relatively "weak" fish.

I have no doubts they are from the same import. They get imported once every few years. I would have more suspicions of perhaps a rougher journey to you for any one of the myriad reasons. It's probably nothing you did unless you handled them roughly or sped through the acclimation. I had a group of P. pi mentioned above, and I lost 3x moving them from one tank to another (identical water parameters, in net for maybe 10 seconds).

Good luck! They are really cool fish and look great in planted tanks. You probably have to work harder to notice them in blackwater, but I bet they'd be cool there too.

I thought it was stress at first but the shop indicate they have a range of colours; so far both these and the morse code tetra have been fairly sturdy at least in my environment. None of these have died in 3 weeks and i've only recorded on morse code tetra dead in 6 months (i have several schools spread out across 3 large aquariums).

 

[Mazan]

Well it will be interesting to see how they get on and whether they will all look the same as they settle down. Hopefully they will be fine.

 

[anewbie]

Well it will be interesting to see how they get on and whether they will all look the same as they settle down. Hopefully they will be fine.

Yea after about 7 days most of them turned clear so it might have been stress related just not sure yet - there might also be sexual dimorphism - the box took an extra day due to ups delay but still i waited about 4 days before taking the picture. Also they mostly hang at the very top so unless i kneel and look up i don't always see all of them

 

[Mazan]

It does sound like it could be stress interesting though…

 

[Mazan]

Amazingly I might actually be able to get some of these soon - fingers crossed!

 

[anewbie]

Amazingly I might actually be able to get some of these soon - fingers crossed!

I went through them today and i think there is a slight difference between some of them but it is not nearly as obvious some just seem to be slightly more blue; i haven't had them long enough to declare them robust but none have died yet - one group is approx 3 weeks old and the 2nd a bit over a week. They mostly hang very close to the top and constantly swim - but the ones i received were small to very small - 1/2 morse code tetra to 1/4 in size - because some of them were so small i've been feeding them bbs 3 or whatever times a week depending on what is left over. The morse code tetra which are actually quite nice in themselves are mostly stationary like ember tetra (nicer looking but more expensive). It will be interesting to see how they age the next few years. To be honest of the three new fishes those gold margarita are pretty nice - someone with more background indicated that there were many groups of different colour margarita and they believe sooner or later they will split them up into different species - the 'gold' ones i received have some nice blue accent esp on top near the dorsal fin running horizontal along the top which the light tends to catch.

 

[Mazan]

I’m not familiar with the margaritas - do you have pictures of those?

The morse code tetras are another that look attractive and I’d like to get, as they are from Peru I suppose there is a chance they might show up here one day!

 

[anewbie]

I’m not familiar with the margaritas - do you have pictures of those?

The morse code tetras are another that look attractive and I’d like to get, as they are from Peru I suppose there is a chance they might show up here one day!

Nannostomus marginatus

 

[Mazan]

Ah right yes sorry, I have recently got some of those they are very nice and very active all over the tank, not sure what variety they are, probably standard though the look goldish in some lights

 

[anewbie]

Ah right yes sorry, I have recently got some of those they are very nice and very active all over the tank, not sure what variety they are, probably standard though the look goldish in some lightsView attachment 16917

I'll try to get a picture - mine are not super active but rather they clump up much like the marilyn. The gold refers to the striping not the body - they are hard to picture for various reasons but i'll see what i can do.

The colouring on the top also catches the light which adds to their interest. I tried to take some pictures of the morse code tetra but they turned out awful - one of the probably is the auto light balance on the phone destroys their look esp in darker water.

 

[anewbie]

Here are a couple of lousy pictures - it shows the blue streak on the top of the fish - the problem i run into is the infra focus beam makes the fish move and following the fish just makes it move more

What i've been told is there are more than 10 colour variation of the fish currently classified as marginatus and it is likely they are different species (or some of them are)... I have mine with the a. sp ipiranga. The ipiranga frys grow incredibly fast and while the brood was small pretty much all of them made it - not sure what i will do with them on the flip side it took over a year for them to spawn and they only spawn once.

 

[rasmusW]

N. Marginatus is one of my favorite fish.
Today i spotted one new fry at 1cm.
It’s funny how they just pop up every now and again.

I’d love to try one of the more “exotic” variants at one point, but now is not the time.

Looking forward to see more pictures of these new ones you got.

-r

 

[Mazan]

I'll try to get a picture - mine are not super active but rather they clump up much like the marilyn. The gold refers to the striping not the body - they are hard to picture for various reasons but i'll see what i can do.

The colouring on the top also catches the light which adds to their interest. I tried to take some pictures of the morse code tetra but they turned out awful - one of the probably is the auto light balance on the phone destroys their look esp in darker water.

Interesting that your marginatus clump up, mine are all over, on the first day they did keep together and swam to and fro in a school, but that soon stopped.

I agree it’s really hard to get a good photo of small fish, I haven’t managed with the ruby tetras yet! From the photos I can’t really see much difference between your marginatus and mine, but they may well be different in real life and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are several geographical varieties, or even species.

Re the Trochilocharax, you have them in blackwater correct? My tank is not blackwater but now has pH about 6, TDS about 19. I haven’t measured GH or KH lately but they are usually (always?) GH 1-2 and KH 0-1. If I can get hold of some almond leaves the water will be darker, the leaves I collect round here don’t stain the water.

 

[anewbie]

Interesting that your marginatus clump up, mine are all over, on the first day they did keep together and swam to and fro in a school, but that soon stopped.

I agree it’s really hard to get a good photo of small fish, I haven’t managed with the ruby tetras yet! From the photos I can’t really see much difference between your marginatus and mine, but they may well be different in real life and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are several geographical varieties, or even species.

Re the Trochilocharax, you have them in blackwater correct? My tank is not blackwater but now has pH about 6, TDS about 19. I haven’t measured GH or KH lately but they are usually (always?) GH 1-2 and KH 0-1. If I can get hold of some almond leaves the water will be darker, the leaves I collect round here don’t stain the water.

Yea i have them in or near blackwater conditions; i haven't tested the ec recently but it is somewhere between 20 and 40; it seems a few leaves can raise the ec a bit. I use ec 3 to 10 water (at the start of the month i replace the sentiment filter and some of the di risen and by the end of hte month is rises).

It is just easier since my base tap is too hard for a lot of the wc dwarf cichild to breed. I'm not sure this species of tetra require blackwater but i only have 3 tap aquariums and the 10 is too small and the others have fishes that could eat them. The elizabeth they are with are youngish and have smaller mouths then some of the other apisto such as winkelfleck and ipiranga.

 

[Mazan]

N. Marginatus is one of my favorite fish.
Today i spotted one new fry at 1cm.
It’s funny how they just pop up every now and again.

I’d love to try one of the more “exotic” variants at one point, but now is not the time.

Looking forward to see more pictures of these new ones you got.

-r

I did once have some mortenthaleri but was sent only males, they didn’t live very long, about 2 years I think, whereas the beckfords I had lasted much longer and bred with a few young surviving. I almost got some Amaya a while back, but they were going to be all males as well, so I decided against it. They were quite expensive too. I actually think I like the marginatus best so far, though if I do get a chance to get the amayas with females as well I might be tempted.