ID two apistogramma's

[Mike Wise]

In my opinion, A. sp. Blutkehl is a very different species from A. uaupesi. It actually is more similar to A. iniridae. The only major difference is in the shape of the caudal fin. It probably is a species intermediate between A. iniridae and A. uaupesi. As for the color forms of A. uaupesi, I don't know. The different populations haven't been thoroughly studied. The specimens with red face markings, for example, are found in several locations. I don't know if this form is mixed with more traditional forms in the same locations, but I would bet that they are. If so, then they are like A. borellii, where some specimens in most populations are more colorful than others. If populations exist that contain only 1 color form, then it is possible that color is species-related. We see this in some of the populations of A. caetei and A. cf. caetei, as discussed in a paper by Ready et al. These caetei populations, however, are in river systems that are separate from each other.

 

[Erik82]

Nice to know your opinion Mike. I haven't found the time to study the exact location and dispersion of the uaupesi. Now i know for sure i have 3 pairs of A. iniridae, one A. uaupese male, Almost sure; 3 female A. sp breitbinden and one male. Then i have 2 fishes i can't identify. I don't have a picture of one of these fishes, ill post them later on. But the other one is a female. She looks a bit like the A. iniridae, but is more slim (?) then the iniridae and she has a squared-off/truncated caudal fin. She also shows the horizontal bar more often, it's almost normal. Any idea's?
pictures:

 

[Mike Wise]

It probably is a female A. uaupesi.

 

[Erik82]

Hi Mike and others,
Wouter Kooiman posted on the dutch forum some pictures of his pair uaupesi he had in the past. There is a difference between his species and mine, here the pictures. When you compare the the photo's you can see the sape of the body is different, my female is long and small, the horizontal bar is obvious visible. She has a squared-off/truncated caudal fin.

The female of Wouter is more like round, and has more a black dot at the flank. A more specific characteristic of the female Wouter had, is the round caudal fin.

When you compare these species i would say that mine is a different one, but which one?? Perhaps one of my "Iniridae" females is a uaupesi female..


My female:

Female/ pair Wouter:

 

[Mike Wise]

Like people, well fed apistos that have lived in an aquarium for more than a couple of month, tend to be heavier bodied. The shape of the caudal on A. uaupesi females - like that of females of A. bitaeniata, A. cacatuoides, A. sp. Breitbinden and some others, changes shape depending on age (not size!). Since your fish are wildcaught, there is no way to guess its age. All that I can say is: based on the diagnostic characteristics shown in the photos (shape, finnage, dark markings) the fish looks like a female A. uaupesi. I could be 100% sure only if I knew precisely where the fish was collected and had the properly preserved body of the fish to examine.

It seems that you are desperately looking for this to be Blutkehl. This species, however, is rare even in its known habitat and I've never heard of it being brought in commercially except as contaminants (bi-catches). Actually most of the photos of Blutkehl pictured in books and magazines are of fish collected by hobbyists who went to collect fish for themselves. They were able to separated out the odd Blutkehl from the A. iniridae and other apistos on site.

 

[Erik82]

Hi Mike,
thank you for your replay. It's not that I'm looking hardly for A. sp blutkehl. I'm just currious which apistogramma's I bought. I bought them from Ernst Vangenne. The only thing is that Ernst probably recieved also some other fishes then collected by himself. The place where these fishes were collected is therefor not sure. I'll ask Ernst the name of the river where these fishes probably came from.

I'm more then pleased with the uaupese And also the A. sp breitbinden!! The only thing is that I like to have couples )also from de uaupese' so i can breed them for the hobbiests. That's were I'm interested in.

 

[Erik82]

Ernst caught the fishes in the Rio Atabapo and small tributary of that rivier. They gathered the fishes about three hours sailing from S.F. de Atabapo.

 

[Mike Wise]

Interesting! It is as far north as I have heard A. uaupesi to exist! This, however, is a general location where Blutkehl is known to occur. Still, it looks more like A. uaupesi than Blutkehl to me. It is often difficult to properly identify closely related species without observing them over a long period of time. Just keep these fish with similar looking fish from the same same collecting locality. The fish know if they are the same species!:wink:

 

[Erik82]

Ah ok, well thats good news then

I'll keep these fishes until there is a couple with eggs. I know they will looking for the same species, I noticed that, tomorrow I'm expecting youngsters of my iniridae's.

I try to separate the iniridae's from the other once by placing the Iniridea male into teh tank with all the "females".

 

[Erik82]

Well it took a few days, but now i have a few pictures of the unidentified female i did not have had on pictures yet.

This female is now swimming in the thank with the A. uaupese male and the other A. uaupesi female.

 

[Mike Wise]

This female is probably the same as the A. uaupesi (Blutkehl?). I would keep her with the other two.

 

[Erik82]

Thats also what o thought. Both females need to lurn how to relax the male. He is kind aggressive against the two females.

 

[Erik82]

Here some new pictures of my A uaupesi. One male i separated from the females, he was to aggressive. Now i have an other male uaupesi. Here some photo's

female 1 photo 1

Female 1 photo 2

Male 1

Male 2

 

[Erik82]

I have a new male in one of my tanks. I compared the male uaupesi with the new male. It looks like the A. uaupesi, but the black bar on the gills are different, like a 'y'. Also the normal pattern is different, the A. uaupesi has a horizontal bar, this male got the blocks similar like the A. iniridae.

What is your opinion about this this fish?

Here three photographs of the male.

 

[Mike Wise]

It looks like A. sp. Blutkehl/Cutthroat to me. The lateral band isn't very visible in the photos. The abdominal bars, however, definitely are! I think that the cheek strip pattern is just a variation. It probably isn't diagnostic.

 

[chris1932]

The sp. Breitbinden is a very nice fish. My male has grown into quite a nice fish.

 

[Erik82]

Thanks again Mike . This male was swimming alone at my brothers place. It looks like he matched with one of the female i mentioned before. The females are less aggressive against him, compared to the others.

 

[Erik82]

You were probably right about my these fishes Mike. I have two coconuts with eggs. One cocout is defended by the orange female, the male is not that active

The other coconut is defended by the uaupesi female ánd male:

Also the breitbinden and iniridae defending some eggs; Babyboom at Erik´s place

Mike, thank you for your support and help identifying my A. species!