ID please

[iddt]

It came in Peru shipment labeled as A. sp. Glaser. I know for sure it is not barlowi. I am guessing fish is from regani group but which species? Eunotus or moae maybe? What do you think?

regards
Ryszard

 

[ste12000]

I would agree with A.Moae. Did you get females??

 

[Mike Wise]

If it's from Peru, then it definitely is not A. moae (a very rare species in the hobby). A lot of fish have been sold under the name "Glaser". It looks like a species of the regani-group, but without seeing the dark markings on the body it is not possible to identify the fish.

 

[lab]

I have this fish, which was imported to Denmark as A. sp. "Roter" from Peru.
The nearest I have been able to id it is A 76, a population of an A. eunotus like fish, but I have only seen one photo of this fish and am not totally convinced that this is it. So I would also really like some opinions on id.
It has more or or less the same threat pattern as A. eunotus, but the male's tail is orange/red with blue spots in the center from root till end. It also has the red spots on the breast.
It is really a pretty little fish!

Lars

 

[iddt]

Fish are very shy yet and it is not easy to take good picture.

ste12000: I have 2 females

And the same species in my friend fishroom

 

[Mike Wise]

The new photos are more helpful. The fish is a cruzi-like form that is sold commercially as A. sp. Roterpunkt. It appears to be a population of A. sp. Nanay/Melgar or a closely related species. It might be the same form that Tom Christoffersen collected near Nauta. There are many different populations that look very similar. I'm not certain if we are looking at one species or many.

 

[iddt]

Thank you for your help.
I have just seen pictures of A. sp. "Schwarzbrust"/sp. "Roterpunkt" taken by TomC and I thing it could be this species.

 

[Mike Wise]

It isn't Schwarzbrust (different dark markings), but could be Roterpunkt (probably a population of A. sp. Nanay/Melgar). I wouldn't put either of these names on this fish.

 

[Rolo]

I dont't agree, Mike...

The fish shows a splitted vertical bar 7, so it should be A. eunous complex, not A. cruzi complex, shouldn't it?

The A. sp. Schwarzbrust at Toms site looks quite similar, so it could be the same (and he call "Roterpunkt" a synonyme) and it's assigned to the A. eunotus complex.

I don't know "Roterpunkt" nor "Schwarzbrust", nor the differences between them, but I doubt, that they (and Ryszards fish) are a form of A. sp, Nanay/Melgar, whis is assigned to the cruzi complex and don't have splitted bars.

I'm a little bit confused.... help me! ;-)

regards,
Rolo

P.S. Which idiot created the name "Roterpunkt" for this fish, even if there is an existing name "Rotpunkt" (which means the same in german) for another fish? Aren't there confusions preassigned?

 

[Mike Wise]

I dont't agree, Mike...

The fish shows a splitted vertical bar 7, so it should be A. eunous complex, not A. cruzi complex, shouldn't it?

Now that you mention it, when I take off my glasses (the blurred vision helps separate dark & light), I think that I do see a split in Bar 6 - and maybe Bar 5! If it does have the splits, then you are correct

- it is a eunotus form. Photos of females would be very helpful.

BTW, according to Miller & Schleiwen (2005 DATZ book) there is no cruzi-complex. It is now part of the eunotus-complex.

The A. sp. Schwarzbrust at Toms site looks quite similar, so it could be the same (and he call "Roterpunkt" a synonyme) and it's assigned to the A. eunotus complex.

Tom & I discussed his fish several years ago. I am fairly certain that his fish are A. sp. Schwarzbrust/Black-breast. His fish are a deep body (high back) eunotus form with well developed abdominal stripes and a caudal pattern of distinct spots over most of the fin (both similar to cruzi forms). Tom's fish are very similar to Schwarzbrust photos seen in Koslowski (2002) & DATZ books, and the misidentified ones in CA1 (p. 403-407). I need to dig up my original photos and emails concerning Roterpunkt to be certain, but I am sure that Tom is right: Schwarzbrust & Roterpunkt are the same species or very very closely related.

Ryzard's fish are also similiar. They don't seem to have the distinct caudal pattern of Schwarzbrust, but this may be population variation. His fish look more like the fish originally imported as "Red-cruzi" (Aqualog News) and pictured in CA1 as A. eunotus (p. 398 & 399). This fish might be a different color population of A. sp. Schwarzbrust. I just can't be certain.

I don't know "Roterpunkt" nor "Schwarzbrust", nor the differences between them, but I doubt, that they (and Ryszards fish) are a form of A. sp, Nanay/Melgar, whis is assigned to the cruzi complex and don't have splitted bars.

I must agree with you. See, I make mistakes too. Please keep me honest by asking questions.:redface:

I'm a little bit confused.... help me! ;-)

regards,
Rolo

OK. You are right. Ryzard's fish are a eunotus-form - not a cruzi-form. They are very similar to Schwarzbrust, but show some (population?) differences. Therefore, I cannot positively say that they are Schwarzbrust. They are more similar to Red-cruzi - which might be a color population of Schwarzbrust. These eunotus-like fish are so confusing! Only preserved specimens + multiple photos will really help separate the many forms.

P.S. Which idiot created the name "Roterpunkt" for this fish, even if there is an existing name "Rotpunkt" (which means the same in german) for another fish? Aren't there confusions preassigned?

Ingo & I both received photos of the fish collected by Ornimental Aquarium Fishes (Panduro's export operation). He had photos of the fish under at least 2 names: Roterpunkt & Doña Martina. We both (separately) suggested that he not use "Roterpunkt" because it was too close to Rotpunkt. Instead he used "Roter".

 

[Rolo]

I must agree with you. See, I make mistakes too. Please keep me honest by asking questions.:redface:

If we wouldn't make mistakes, we wouldn't have anything to discuss. That would be boring! ;-)

Thanks for all the information.

regards,
Rolo

 

[iddt]

Photos of females would be very helpful.

As you wish.

It took some time but finally I got good pictures of female

 

[Mike Wise]

The spots on the lateral band are rather broad on your female. The dorsal spots extend farther into the dorsal fin than on most females of the eunotus-complex. Both A. sp. Schwarzbrust/Black-breast & A. sp. Tahuayo have broader lateral spots and dorsal spots that extend into the dorsal fin. A. sp. Schwarzbrust has broader lateral spots (like your fish's) than A. sp. Tahuayo. I still am not certain that your fish are A. sp. Schwarzbrust, but they certainly are closely related to it.