ick, epistylis or something else ?

[anewbie]

After 4 years this aquarium has come down with white spot disease. At first I thought it was ick but it seems to be getting in the eye so not sure - it is fairly uniform but....

 

[MacZ]

If it's Ichthyophthirius it has to be introduced. And it can be present on the eye... Epistylis is unusual on tetras. It could be a form of Dermocystidium, though...

Care to use the disease template?
Additional questions:
Are all species affected? Any losses, yet? Any other signs of Ichthyo? (Scratching, fast/heavy breathing)

 

[anewbie]

If it's Ichthyophthirius it has to be introduced. And it can be present on the eye... Epistylis is unusual on tetras. It could be a form of Dermocystidium, though...

Care to use the disease template?
Additional questions:
Are all species affected? Any losses, yet? Any other signs of Ichthyo? (Scratching, fast/heavy breathing)

Noticed it yesterday; introduced new young (1.5 inch) L128 about 2 weeks ago. I noticed one or two spots on a dwarf angel and a bit on a adult L208 but the pictured tetra (5 of them) are most affected. The water condition is kh 3 gh 6 - the aquarium is a 29 that gets 2 50% water changes a week. The keri i've had for a bit over a year - they were adults when received and had always been a bit fragile (someone suggested a while ago they might have tb but i have my doubts). The aquarium has 1 male agasizzi 1 small or run black angel 6 sterbai 6 cardials and some various young pleco - other than the adult L208 all under 2 inches. I've been using it to grow out pleco for the new aquariums.

Because it is summer the tank has been running around 80 (normal temp is 76-77); most of the fishes are fine with warmer temps but i suspect the keri are not so happy with it. I dont' care much for the keri but would like the pleco and sterbai to get through this ok - the tank has been setup for a bit over 4 years and many of the cory have been in the aquarium for most of that time. THe L208 has been in it for around 3 years - the cardinals for 2+ years and the rest of the stocking for near a year 'cept for the new L128s.
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plan was to move them into larger aquariums in approx 2-3 weeks but with this disease outbreak i suppose I'll have to delay that but i can put them into a larger qt tank in about 2-3 weeks after i move.

 

[MacZ]

introduced new young (1.5 inch) L128 about 2 weeks ago.

Says it all. Treat for Ichthyophthirius, use a malachite green based med, if possible no formaldehyde (if it's in there use half the dose) or (better for the catfish) something containing Phenyl-methyl-hydroxide. But who do I tell that, you know the drill.

You do that successfully the tank should be safe to move fish from a week after the end of the treatment. And don't forget to disinfect the equipment and gear (hoses, nets etc.) throroughly! Also keep an eye on any tanks you used them on the past weeks.

 

[anewbie]

Ok thanks. I started kordon rid-ick yesterday. Normally I would treat with salt (which i have found very effective against ick) but this aquarium has a lot of plants that would be a bit difficult to replace.

For 'disinfect' of python I've been using tap hot water - i have 5 aquariums but only 2 pythons.
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I think the kordon product does contain formaldehyde and malachite CHLORIDE green; the label doesn't list the ingrediants. I have pure mech green somewhere i think but not sure of dosing if i switched to that.
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someone recommended coppersafe which list copper sulfate as the only active ingrediants.
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kind of annoying these meds don't list all ingrediants on label - kordon's website has:
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Efficacy is improved and the treatment time is often reduced when compared to treatment with either the chemicals malachite or formalin alone. (contains 4.26% of formalin and 0.038% of zinc-free chloride salt of malachite green which is 1/2 marketing.
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to be honest i found plain table salt to be most effective and am tempted to remove all the plants and treat with salt.

 

[MacZ]

Salt is indeed effective, but as you said yourself, there is the plant problem plus it will not eradicate the parasite completely, so the tank will still be a source of parasites and a re-infection is possible. (not very likely but still)

For 'disinfect' of python I've been using tap hot water - i have 5 aquariums but only 2 pythons.

Near-Boiling water (70°C + ) would do it, too.

malachite CHLORIDE green

Same thing.

someone recommended coppersafe which list copper sulfate as the only active ingrediants.

Yes, effective against Ichthyophthirius but copper sulfate will kill off your catfish very effectively, too.

 

[anewbie]

Sorry to add another comment - one thing that is a bit weird is the dots on my L208 are gold instead of white. Not sure if this is because they are on a black fish or if it is something else - the threatment i added yesterday seems to have reduced it on the tetra so hopefully i caught it early but like all diseases it is too early to say - really hate putting meds in fish tank - and dread having to treat a 550 gallon tank.... but hopefully once i move everything can be qt for a month before being added.

 

[Mike Wise]

- really hate putting meds in fish tank -

The primary reason to quarantine fish before putting them in a community tank.

 

[anewbie]

The primary reason to quarantine fish before putting them in a community tank.

I don't disagree and when i get out of this condo in sept i will have lots of room for qt tanks - a whole room in fact but until i leave this condo the reality is i don't have room. Not really suppose to have the ones i have but i'm not telling if you don't tell.

 

[Mike Wise]

I find it hard to believe one cannot find space for a 2gal/8L plastic container. It doesn't need to be a fully equipped aquarium. It definitely is less expensive than treating a large aquarium and potentially losing several or all of the fish.

 

[MacZ]

I find it hard to believe one cannot find space for a 2gal/8L plastic container. It doesn't need to be a fully equipped aquarium. It definitely is less expensive than treating a large aquarium and potentially losing several or all of the fish.

Kinda same, although - in that kind of situation - I'd probably just have not gotten any new fish before the move anyway. But I'm also good at forgoing things...

 

[anewbie]

Lets see - the new fishes are a set of small L128 and aff apithanos there were inexpensive and on my list of stocking for the new aquariums i'm setting up. They would want a mature tank with biofilm - if i were to qt them it would be in nothing smaller than a 15. Also they don't have ick - they look fine even now - it is their tank mates that got ick and no i did not pour their water in the aquarium.
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This is one of the most annoying thing - what do you do if the new fish doesn't show a disease even after qt but then when you mix them the old fishes get sick.

 

[MacZ]

Lets see - the new fishes are a set of small L128 and aff apithanos there were inexpensive and on my list of stocking for the new aquariums i'm setting up. They would want a mature tank with biofilm

The fish in question are not Otocinclus which require a mature tank for survival. They can be fed supplementory foods. For a QT period that's fine. Instead you could have moved wood and other decorations from a mature tank to the QT.
Inexpensive fish are easy to obtain. You could just have waited. But that's making a fuzz about spilled milk.

Also they don't have ick - they look fine even now - it is their tank mates that got ick and no i did not pour their water in the aquarium.

It is absolutely possible that fish introduce parasites or pathogens they themselves do not show. That's called a vector or a carrier. It is possible but very unlikely, especially that there are several individuals introducing it. You don't have to pour in the water from the transport/store to cause such things. Sometimes it's ON/IN the fish.

what do you do if the new fish doesn't show a disease even after qt but then when you mix them the old fishes get sick.

Then you have to do what the situation demands. That's simply chance.

The likelihood to introduce something after an event-less quarantine is minute. There is never a 100% security and one should be aware of this. Something can always pass through. If something passes through you did all you could.
But once you forgo safety measures you raise chances of introducing something by a lot and it's all on you.

 

[anewbie]

The white/yellow dots are gone (ick/velvet?); but one thing i noticed a bit odd is on the underside of the L204 - no clue if it has always been there but thought i'd post a picture:

It is a bit blurry - took several pictures and they all turned out not so great - might try again tomorrow if he displays his underside (which is extremely infrequent):

Basically the white blob near his mouth. I've had this fish for over 3 years.

 

[anewbie]

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End results:
None of hte fishes died; all dots seem gone today. Today was my last treatment as i've used the stuff up.
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All the fishes but the male agasizz cleared of dots (white and gold) within 3 days. The male agasizz looked like he was going to die for sure - and vanished for 4 days but reappear 2 days ago with one or two dots on fin and today he is completely clear and quite spunky and his 'old man' look vanished (he is at least 2 years old - i've had him for 11 months and he was a full grown adult male when purchased).
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I've used the kordon stuff before with good results. I move the 15th and after the 15th all new fishes will be qt'ed in a bare bottom 20 long for 8 weeks 'cept those that come from certified seller or total purchase is used to populate empty aquarium.

 

[Mike Wise]

IMHO there is no "certified seller", unless it is a home breeder.

 

[anewbie]

IMHO there is no "certified seller", unless it is a home breeder.

What i meant was TUIC where they state or claim to be vet certified but i suppose qt'ing is never a bad thing.

 

[Mike Wise]

Having been at export businesses that require vet certification for export, vet exams are very cursory being a quick inspection of tanks - not individual fish. I learned long ago that quarantining fish is much less expensive than medication.

 

[anewbie]

Having been at export businesses that require vet certification for export, vet exams are very cursory being a quick inspection of tanks - not individual fish. I learned long ago that quarantining fish is much less expensive than medication.

Ok thanks. I thought they were actually tested so that was my mistake. I'll qt the new fishes - might as well setup the large aquarium in the basement for that - it has a 40 watt uv on it which might kill parasite.

 

[anewbie]

Another fish in one of my new aquariums have come down with spots. It look ickish but confirmation would be helpful. Not sure what is happening here - no new fishes have been added for a month - this is a 550 gallon new aquarium and it seems currently localized to a couple of fishes - a small runt clown loach is covered in spots (it is an old fish but abused during my move to the new home). This is a 5 year old clown loach - it was not abused during the move (3 weeks ago) but has a few spots and not sure if i should be trying to do something. The tank has a drip system that adds 2 gallons an hour - 48 a day or around 300 a week - i have a flow meter on the drip system to make sure it is consistent - the aquarium is kept at 78-80 degrees and the population is relatively sparse for an aquarium this size - basically 2/3 of the fishes i had in the 120 were moved in here - the other 1/3 were moved into a 440.

Fins seem somewhat clamp to me so i think something is terribly wrong but not sure what is happening. non-loaches include pair of angels, 7 festum and some serpae tetra of which i've not noticed any issues.