Help ID please

[KtttK]

Hi, I bought a group of 10 juvenile apistos about 8 months ago and they were sold to me as Juruensis. But they don't seem to look like the pics of Juruensis I have seen online.


This is the dominant one, which I assume is a male, and shows a bit of red around the head and sides:

This here is a less dominant fish, showing stress markings I think:

Thanks in advance.

 

[fishgeek]

looks more like a regani fish to me than a cactoides, so dont think it is a jurensis
my guess, from some previous posts, would be something like a eunotus 'orange tail'
i am sure i have been reading orangeflossen or orange something whilst seeing this, or a similar fish discussed

than again i could be totally wrong
andrew

 

[element]

Looks like A. sp. pebas to me

 

[Mike Wise]

I think that it is A. sp. Papagei/Parrot (Caudalfleck) A 92, but it certainly could be A. sp. Pebas. I would need to see better photos of the caudal peduncle area to be certain.

 

[KtttK]

Thank you for the response.

I see that a couple of the smaller ones are beginning to become quite yellow and they have about 5 black spots along their flanks - I'm assuming they are females.

I will put the dominant male and one of the females into their own tank in the hopes of spawning them and will try to get a better photo of the female in brood dress.

 

[fishgeek]

mike how far wrong am i?
looking at my books now i see that eunotus has a different dorsal fin, spines enlarged and seperated anyting else that i should be seeing?

andrew

 

[Nick S.]

possible?

What about A. Erepnophyge?

 

[Rolo]

What about A. Erepnophyge?

On the one hand, it is called A. eremnopyge (greek: eremnos=black + pygos=buttock)

and on the other hand...it has nothing to do with the fish on the pictures. A. eremnopge is totally different in every aspect (except both are small and Apistos) ;-)

I would say, it is A. sp. Pebas (or a related form)....

Maybe it's a form closer related to A. sp. Papagei, but I don't think it is a "true" A. sp. Papagei. (I've never seen a Papagei with spotted caudal fin).
So I would prefer to call it "Pebas".

best regards,
Rolo

 

[Mike Wise]

mike how far wrong am i?
looking at my books now i see that eunotus has a different dorsal fin, spines enlarged and seperated anyting else that i should be seeing?

Andrew,

Compare the pattern on the dorsal fin and the markings on the flanks. Eunotus-like forms don't have intricate color patterns on the dorsal, but Pebas-complex forms usually do. The same is true for the dark edged scales on the flaks that produce a net-like pattern.

I would say, it is A. sp. Pebas (or a related form)....

Maybe it's a form closer related to A. sp. Papagei, but I don't think it is a "true" A. sp. Papagei. (I've never seen a Papagei with spotted caudal fin).
So I would prefer to call it "Pebas".

Rolo,

Yes, you are probably correct because I have never seen a specimen of A. sp. Papagei with a spotted caudal fin. The caudal fin markings are very few & very weak, however. The dorsal fin pattern is much more like those seen on A. papagei. Once we see a photo of the female in brood dress, we will both be more certain.

 

[KtttK]

Ok, here is a pic of the female.. I can't get a good close up without it going all blurry - Unlike the pic, she is normally quite yellow and I'm assuming these markings are her brood dress..

 

[Mike Wise]

The female shows the double caudal patch ( ∞ ) of A. sp. Papagei. A. sp. Pebas has a more triangular shape. If the female shows only 2 (or 3) spots on the flanks while guarding fry, then it is A. sp. Papagei. If it has 4 or 5, it is A. sp. Pebas.

 

[KtttK]

Cool.. thanks Mike and everyone else for your responses.

I am in the process of conditioning her on bloodworms and white worms. Will update again once she has spawned.. fingers crossed .

 

[KtttK]

Update - Breeding...

hi all,

Here is an update of the fish in question.
Out of the 10 juveniles I bought, only 2 of them turned out to be females! They have both paired up and are currently guarding eggs. The following are pics of 1 of the pairs.

The male:

The female:
You can see the eggs on the ceiling of the cave. They are a bright orange colour.

The female shows the double caudal patch ( ∞ ) of A. sp. Papagei. A. sp. Pebas has a more triangular shape. If the female shows only 2 (or 3) spots on the flanks while guarding fry, then it is A. sp. Papagei. If it has 4 or 5, it is A. sp. Pebas.[/B]

The apisto is either a Papagei or a Pebas. The female has 5 spots on its flanks (while guarding eggs [will it be different when they guard fry??] ) - suggesting it is a pebas, but it has a double caudal patch - suggesting it is a papagei... so which is it?

 

[Mike Wise]

The female shows the brood dress of A. sp. Pebas. The male looks a lot like A. sp. Papagei (A 92), but I can't say it is for certain. I can't see the pattern of the caudal patch, and A. sp. Pebas males are highly polychromatic.

 

[antwan]

Hi ktttk, if these are the ones imported by Phil, then they will most likely be A.sp.Pebas as I have not seen or heard anything about him getting in A.sp.Papagei. I know he is breeding the Pebas also as he sells a lot of them on trademe as "Apistogramma huallaga".

 

[Mike Wise]

I know he is breeding the Pebas also as he sells a lot of them on trademe as "Apistogramma huallaga".

What a strange name of A. sp. Pebas. The Río Huallaga, home to A. baenschi & A. rositae, is almost 1000 mi./1500 km from the Río Ampiyacu, home to A. sp. Pebas & Papagei.

 

[antwan]

The person that imported them has a sad knowledge of Apistogramma's and is only interested in the money side of things unfortunately.

 

[Tom C]

I think this is the same fish I have.

I know the fisherman who catches them; he told me they are caught in the Rio Ampiyacu-area, and that they appear very blue when in his nets.

He calls them Apistogramma sp. "Blue", and under this name it is sold by the Peruvian exporter Stingray Aquarium SAC.

Here are some pictures of my fish, under different light conditions:

He has a reason to call it A. sp. "Blue":

 

[Mike Wise]

Tom, the horizontally split caudal spot on your fish is more like the caudal spot on A. sp. Putumayo (A85). Maybe it is a color morph? It is a beautiful fish. I will run over to your house right now and get some!:biggrin: I guess it is only 5000 km.

 

[Tom C]

Tom, the horizontally split caudal spot on your fish is more like the caudal spot on A. sp. Putumayo (A85).

Yes, I'm aware of that, Mike. But this fish is like a chameleon, it sometimes shows up like this, in my opinion a much more A. sp. "Pebas"-look (and caudal spot).
(Look at the blue and red markings in the face, if you doubt it's the same fish)

and this is the female:

I will run over to your house right now and get some!:biggrin: I guess it is only 5000 km.

You're always welcome back, Mike. But it's more easy to join the trip we have been talking about next atumn, then you'll be able to catch some !