Congochromis sabinae mystery ailment

[Lenny Llambi]

Has anyone experienced a dropsy-like ailment with this species? I noticed a female who seemed quite large the day after a water change. Great!!! Eggs are coming!!! Then, on Tuesday, I came home for lunch and peeked into the tank to look for my soon-to-be-BAP. I thought I saw the female, but something was different. The fish was the typical white and pink breeding garb, but she was kind of long. It was actually a sub dominant male!
So, now my dominant female and a subdominant male have blown up like balloons to the point that their scales are protruding. The sides are evenly proportioned, so it's not like dropsy where one side is larger than the other. Also, the fish are breathing heavily, and their eyes are bulging. I have fed the tanks to observe their behavior around food. They try to eat, but it's almost like they are unable to close their mouth around the food. I did some real quick parameter checks, and other than the low pH (~5.5), everything else is normal. The tank also contains another male and female, as well as a school of Raspbora espei, all of which are acting normally.

Any ideas?

 

[bigbird]

Hello,

Have not had anything like this before, however what are you feeding them ? Live/frozen etc foods ? cheers jk

 

[Lenny Llambi]

Live blackworms ~twice per week. Frozen bloodworms, tubifex, krill, mysis, Artemia, BBS, and Daphnia are provided ~3-4 times per week. Freeze-dried bloodworms, brine, and Daphnia ~3-4 times a week. I will feed some flakes and powdered food to the Raspboras, but the C. sabinae are wild so they really are not interested in processsed foods. The tank is planted so there is a healthy supply of detritus and aufwuchs.
This is what I feed all of my wild dwarves, and everyone else flourishes.
I did just drop the pH from 6.5 to 5.5, so I took out a specimen container worth of water and replaced it with some waste water from my RO. The fish seem to be a bit less aggravated. Maybe that ten fold increase in protons whacked them out. We'll see...

 

[westafrica]

Hi Lenny,

I encounterd the same problem with some F1 C. sabinae : dropsy. Even though both sides are evenly inflated it is dropsy, the erected scales show it.

Unfortunately I'm affraid they won't make it : I never saved one sabinae who had this problem.

Among the factors that can explain this, the main is : too rich food or too big quantities & too big feeding frequency!! I never give any bloodworms for instance to my westies. Plus, C. sabinae is rather detrivorous and likes a vegetal part in their feeding, whereas you describe 100% non vegetal food. My sabinae pair was wild and I got them used to dried food in less than 10 days, this is not really a problem.

I also noticed that C. sabinae can encounter problems scaling from digestive problems to sudden death in case of :
- any kind of stress (domination, too much light, lack of hiding places...)
- water quality being not perfect. I think this sp. is the most sensitive to water quality that I ever kept & bred! This means very little or no NO3, no ammoniac, no NO2 even in small quantities.

I encounter far less problems with my sabinae since I've been adding tannin elements in the water , especially dried alder fruits in big quantities.

I hope you will be able to save your fish... Congochromis sabinae is indeed a wonderful sp. ...

Regards,

Jérôme

 

[Lenny Llambi]

Jerome:

I will cut down on the protein, and try to move them over to a more balanced food source like flake, or pellet. I did notice that the fish seemed to be a little bit better yesterday. Maybe I'll place some Nori into the tank tonight.

If there is anything that the tank is not missing, it is tannins. I filter over Canadian peat, and add oak leaves to the aquarium. Also, I religiously change 50% of the water weekly.

Thanks for the advice! I'll keep you posted!

 

[westafrica]

Hi again lenny,

I'd be glad if you kept me posted!

Just wanted to add that I wasn't putting your global maintenance practices in question (only warning you on the food aspect, lost too many Chromidotilapines because of it when I started with westies), I was only listing what I think are the key success factors with that species (almost purely based on facts, I'm not saying it is the absolute truth) . Rereading my post it wasn't that clear!

Just one more thing I thought about : with many tanins & heavily planted and decorated tanks, the products of biological degradation of these organic products tends to accumulate, and I suspect it was a partial explanation with the problems I had with my sabinae. Maybe you should check that there is absolutely no such potential NO3 nests?

Once again I hope you will save them! This species deserves to have several well established strains in the hobby!

Read you soon

Best regards,

Jerome

 

[Lenny Llambi]

Just wanted to add that I wasn't putting your global maintenance practices in question (only warning you on the food aspect, lost too many Chromidotilapines because of it when I started with westies), I was only listing what I think are the key success factors with that species (almost purely based on facts, I'm not saying it is the absolute truth) .

No worries, Jerome. I did not take it that way at all. The more I think about it, the more I think that I have been giving these guys too protein-rich of a diet. The tank has quite a bit of mulm and aufwuchs, but perhaps I need to back off feeding this tank protein, so that they do more scavenging.
I've been doing some small water changes daily too. I'm still wondering whether the drop in pH may have helped cause the dropsy. The onset of symptoms corresponded with my addition of extra peat after a water change.

 

[westafrica]

Hi Lenny!

Did you manage to save them?

A sudden pH drop could indeed have favored the dropsy, but I don't think it is sufficient to explain it. Anyway a low pH value and very low Gh and kH in itself seem a good thing with that sp. even for mere maintenance : I lost 1 wild female and 1 F1 female who had been kept in hard water for weeks, and I suspect the reason for their death is that they was unable to lay her eggs : I found them both dead after many days of intense displaying, with the egg tube out, and no sign of problem. I suspect maybe their internal sexual organs have been affected by a calcification... Only hypothesis though, if someone has another one and can tell me more I'd be glad.

 

[Lenny Llambi]

Well, the one male looks like he will pull through, but the female does not look very good. Hopefully, one of my remaining males will show some interest in the one remaining female. Otherwise, I wil have to order some more. Luckily, Rehoboth Aquatics seems to have some left.

Just as a side note, when I performed my usual water change on Sunday, I made sure to add clean water slowly so as to not aggravate any problem the fish were having with the water parameters. After a couple of specimen containers full of clean water, the female's left side began to swell. Very strange!

 

[bigbird]

Morning,

Just a suggestion, as it did happen to me. Make sure that the water conditioner that you are using is not out of date and/or if you are using rainwater, make sure it is not contaminated by iron or ash. Maybe this will help. cheers jk