Color diminishing?

[Hilde]

I got a orange flash Apisto Sunday July 11. Her bright yellow color is diminishing. No doubt it is due to the water. It has ph of 8.2 and very low Gh and Kh, which is due to city treating the water with phosphates.

Has anyone had this problem?

 

[Big G]

I would suspect that she was rather in 'breeding' colouration if she was bright yellow, and now has returned to normal 'non-breeding' colouration?

This is normal, and part of the attraction of Apistogrammas!

But, just to be on the safe side, can you post a picture of this female?

I'm guessing that by 'Orange Flash', you are refering to Apistogramma Cacatuoides 'Orange Flash'?

Regards
G!

 

[Hilde]

Yes that is Apistogramma Cacatuoides 'Orange Flash'. Her color picked up yesterday after I added Seachem Equilibrium and Flora Pride. Here she is pale this mourning.

 

[Mike Wise]

Hilde, were these fish actually sold to you as A. cacatuoides Orange Flash? The male in the photo is an A. cacatuoides Double Red. Orange Flash don't show black lattice-like markings on the fins. Eric Martina's photo (top one) at http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/apistogramma_cacatuoides.php shows a good example of the 'normal' Orange Flash. Many Orange Flash are now mixed with the yellow-gold form, so the body color on these are more yellow.

 

[Hilde]

Hilde, were these fish actually sold to you as A. cacatuoides Orange Flash? The male in the photo is an A. cacatuoides Double Red.

I traded plants for them from someone whom is inexperienced. Was told male was A. cacatuoides triple red and female was A. cacatuoides Orange Flash.

 

[Mike Wise]

That's possible, but the male is a very poor Triple Red. He might be from a Triple Red stock. Triple Reds are not always a 'set' strain. It depends on who is breeding the fish. Some strains often produce a number of Double Reds, too.

 

[Hilde]

Okay, well he's is still a good specimen for breeding. The females are questionable. I am just going to let nature take its course and see what happens. Perhaps a few will be beautiful.

 

[Hilde]

I think her coloration is normal. She is very active unlike a Gold Ram I had, whoms color had diminished before he died.

Thinking that it is the water that is affecting her coloration since I read this:
It is possible to keep and possibly breed many species of dwarf cichlids in hard alkaline water. The fish will not grow as well or be as colorful as those raised in softer water.

My water is soft but alkaline so I don't think it will affect her health. Especially since I dose Equilibrium.

 

[Hilde]

her coloration must be a important factor

To me yes! For I love gold colored fish. You don't mean an important factor to the health?

 

[Bilbo]

I don’t see anything to awful about her and he is probably better than any triple red we have in this country currently.

I have posted a few times myself about apistos lacking colour and it took me quite a while for the simple answer to sink in but its good water and good food.

I saw the other thread about high pH and low hardness but haven’t read all the way through yet but I would say pH 8.2 and high phosphates doesn’t constitute good water for apisto's. That may be diferent to what others think but I would be trying to do something about it.

 

[Hilde]

I have posted a few times myself about apistos lacking colour and it took me quite a while for the simple answer to sink in but its good water and good food.

I would say pH 8.2 and high phosphates doesn’t constitute good water for apisto's. I would be trying to do something about it.

The ph gone down to 7.6. in all of my tanks. From previous problems with a Ram I found it is best to maintain stable parameters. I have had them for 2 weeks and they are doing fine, thus not going to worry about lowering the ph. Dosing with Seachem Equilibrium should help keep the parameters stable.

 

[Peals]

Water Quality

Proper pH and hardness for apistos is very important, hard water causes kidney failure as these fish cannot process the salts contained in hard water. Lack of color can be very diagnostic, in other words apistos and other south american cichlids communicate moods, and health with color change. Primarily black water and clear water species like these should never be kept in hard alkaline water, it is an eventual death sentence for most. If they do survive it is despite the keeper and live a life of marginal health. Some specific species can be kept at 6.5-70, with a VERY moderate total hardness. It depends on just how much of a harsh condition a species can take. Consider an RO system at the very least,they can be had for about 150 dollars. These fish are worth it, with an astounding and fascinating list of behaviors/colors when they are happy. Good Luck. PS This is my first time on any forum , hope this was helpful...I think I should have done this as a reply...duh

I think her coloration is normal. She is very active unlike a Gold Ram I had, whoms color had diminished before he died.

Thinking that it is the water that is affecting her coloration since I read this:
It is possible to keep and possibly breed many species of dwarf cichlids in hard alkaline water. The fish will not grow as well or be as colorful as those raised in softer water.

My water is soft but alkaline so I don't think it will affect her health. Especially since I dose Equilibrium.

 

[Hilde]

Proper pH and hardness for apistos is very important, hard water causes kidney failure as these fish cannot process the salts contained in hard water. Consider an RO system at the very least,they can be had for about 150 dollars. . PS This is my first time on any forum , hope this was helpful...I think I should have done this as a reply...duh

My water is not hard it is soft. I am living on unemployment and family aid thus not about to spend $150 on hobby. You were not helpful!!

 

[bigbird]

Hello Hilde,

You ask us for help and we give you a response. Also remember that all members are not aware of your social structure and financial situation, so take that into consideration before you respond in a negative way. You confuse me. You state your water is soft yet alkaline, you state your PH has gone down to 7.6. , you state you have many tanks, you are not worried about lowering PH and you use equilibrium a lot. It seems to me that you are not solving the root of the problem, but using Equilibrium to lower the PH. Have you used oak leaves, pine cones, driftwood etc to try and lower your PH. All these are free if you find them. Also do you let your water stand with an airstone for a day or two before using it ? cheers jk

 

[Bilbo]

Exactly right. We have all got our own problems and no one wants to to make the hobby harder for anyone else. Our goal is to make this easier and by posting on this site we aren’t just giving instructions to you. We are all reading each others methods to improve on our own. For example I found Peals post very interesting and I had never heard of using Pine cones until today.

While I agree that stable water parameters are much better than having huge variations between water changes I also say that incorrect water, even if it is stable, can cause problems.

An easy and cheap peat filter can be found here http://www.marksfish.me.uk/index.php/Tips/Peat-Filtering.html or because your water is soft it should change easily with, as Bigbird said, oak leaves or driftwood or Pine cones in the tank.

 

[Hilde]

Consider an RO system at the very least,they can be had for about 150 dollars. These fish are worth it.

I gave a negative response, for this phrase seemed more a demand than a suggestion. One can not demand another to spend that kind of money. Also wanted him to understand why I don't feel these fish are worth spending 150 dollars on.

You confuse me. You state your water is soft yet alkaline, you state your PH has gone down to 7.6.,

The water parameter are strange because the city treats the water with phosphates.

You state you have many tanks, you are not worried about lowering PH and you use equilibrium a lot.

I have 2 tanks. One is a holding tank and the other is a planted tank. I am hoping that the addition of minerals will help the fish to adjust. I worked for some Rainbow fish I had.

Have you used oak leaves, pine cones, driftwood etc to try and lower your PH.

Have bogwood in the holding tank but it has not changed anything. I put a bag of sphagnum moss in. I added rainwater and spring water.

Also do you let your water stand with an airstone for a day or two before using it ?

Will try!!

Bilbo checking out the link you gave. Thanks!!

 

[bigbird]

Hi Again,

I also would be interested to know what substrate you are using and also which rock types etc. Some gravel and rocks are not good too use for South American soft water setups. I only used silica sand and sandstone rocks, all others tend to harden the water. cheers jk

 

[Hilde]

What substrate you are using and also which rock types etc.

Substrate is Scotts top soil and Scotts potting soil. Then topped with river sand. The rocks are river rock, which I got at a landscaper's. It is a planted tank.

 

[bigbird]

Morning,

Not knowing this brand, can you let me know if it is for Aquarium use or normal potting mix ? Normal potting mix sometimes contains added itemsthat will change the water parameters. Cheers jk

 

[Hilde]

Morning,
Not knowing this brand, can you let me know if it is for Aquarium use or normal potting mix ? Some gravel and rocks tend to harden the water.

I don't why but I told you the substrate that is in the planted tank. The soil is normal potting mix. This is something read about doing on APC form. The parameters are the same in their holding tank. In the holding tank just have the river rocks and river sand.

The gh and kh are both 2 with ph of 7.4 now.