Cacatuoides eggs, but no cigars this time

[KelVarnson]

This is going to be a little long but I am new to apistogramma and have several questions.

Background: Last weekend I bought a pair of cacatuoides "Triple Red," my first cichlids of any kind, and introduced them as the sole occupants (except for the usual snail menagerie) of my planted 29G tank. They are not shy and come up to feed on frozen food and freeze dried blood worms. Yesterday I noticed that the female had taken up residence in a driftwood cave and today she spent all her time coming out of the cave to flash and shimmy at the male, at times nip at him, and then head back to the cave. The male seemed mildly interested and would follow to within a few inches of the cave but once she was out of site he would turn around. Once while she was away I shined a flashlight into the cave but did not see any eggs. This evening I did my usual 50% water change and about an hour later I noticed about 15-20 white eggs on the wall of the cave. I saw the female take one into her mouth and put it back on the cave. While I was excited to see some eggs, and even though I have never bred any fish before, I don't think white eggs are what you want.

My questions: Why would the eggs turn white? My KH is 1.5 and I use CO2 to lower my pH to about 6.6 but the 50% water change likely would have temporarily pushed that back over 7. If the eggs were there when I changed the water and added my usual plant ferts would that have affected the eggs? Are the eggs pH sensitive? Are they unfertilized? Does the male have to fit into the cave to fertilize the eggs? She is only about 1.25 inches long and can fit into a much smaller place than he can (he is at least 2.5 in) and I doubt he would have swam through the small hollow in the driftwood where the eggs were laid. Would an upside-down flower pot with an opening they both can fit through be better (assuming she would choose it instead)? If at some point I do get some fertilized eggs, can the fry be raised (at first) in the same tank? Will the fry have enough to eat initially in a planted tank, do the parents feed them or should I have some fry food ready? I suppose I can lower the filter flow rate but will they know to stay clear of the canister filter intake or do I need to cover it with nylon mesh or something like that? Will the parents tolerate otocinclus in the tank if they have spawned? I was thinking of adding some if I need algae control. Whew, that's it for questions!

I'm glad I decided to set up a dwarf cichlid tank -- these fish are really fun to watch! Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Kev, congratulations everything sounds fine. The male doesn't have to get into the cave he can push his sperm ("milt") into the cave with rhythmic body and fin movements, this is why caves with low ceilings are preferred.

The eggs may be fertile, but you would expect them to be pink or red, if they aren't I'm sure the pair will be soon mate successfully, as this was their first attempt. I try and avoid looking in the cave etc at all. My female cacatuoides like half coconut shell caves, I just cut a small notch out of the rim, so the female really has to turn sideways and squeeze through the gap to fit in, I also use sand as a substrate to allow the female to excavate/block up the hole as she wishes. They've also spawned in flower pots successfully.

A. cacatuoides can spawn in relatively hard water, so I don't think the pH is an issue. Conductivity might be, so I might hold back on the plant feeding (and CO2) for a while. I keep heavily planted low tech tanks, but we do have some aquascapers who might be able to give you advice for CO2 / nutrient added tanks. I might go for a smaller water change more frequently (I do 10 -15% every day). You will need to cover the intake of your powerfilter.

I leave the fry in the tank with the parents, I have lots of java moss (including planted all over the coconut caves) and biofilm, and sponge filters (powerhead with a sponge block), the fry have a go at all of these.
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I also feed microworms (just turn the filter off and pipette the microworms to the fry), once they are little bit bigger I mix some powdered flake and grindal worms in with microworms, and they seem fine on this as a diet, microworms are much simpler to culture than brine shrimps. I've found that the adults don't tend to eat the fry, although older fry will eat younger fry.
You might also need to play with the water temperature, higher temperatures give you more male fry and lower more female, about 27oC should give you both, although pH may also play a role (have a look at the threads in this forum). The female will be very attentive to the fry for a couple of weeks and them just abandon them.

Mine always ignore the Otocinclus in the tank, even the female after she has spawned, but if they rest near the fry she will have a bit of a peck at them until they move. One problem is that Otocinclus are quite tricky to keep, I always have a slice of courgette or cucumber in the tank for them, in case they run out of algae. I kept Red cherry Shrimps with A. borellii successfully, but they were very unsuccessful with A. cacatuoides other than providing some exercise and a high protein diet for the fish.

You might find you have some female on male violence when she brings the fry out, and after that a bit of male on female violence as he will want to spawn again and she won't, a few spare females helps (they are really harem spawners although the shops sell them in pairs) or some dithers. I keep Black Neon Tetras, they are fine so are Pencil fish or Ember tetras. Other Tetras vary Pristella, Emperor or Neons etc. are great fry hunters.

cheers Darrel

 

[KelVarnson]

Thanks, DW for your responses to my multitude of questions. This morning I have a lot more eggs and they are looking more pinkish so maybe I will have some babies soon. The eggs are visible on the driftwood from the front of the tank so I have an unobstructed view into the cave to watch. The mother is spending a lot of time attending to the eggs, mouthing them and so on. How many days until I can expect to see free-swimming fry?

I appreciate your personal exp with the otocinclus. I never have had any problems with them in the past so I may introduce some once this spawing episode is over.

 

[KelVarnson]

Gone and back again

This breeding thing sure has a lot of ups and downs. Yesterday afternoon all the eggs were gone and in their place was a big ramshorn snail. Do these things eat fish eggs? I guess they eat whatever they can find. I was disappointed but the pair continued their courtship and this morning I have a fresh batch of eggs. We're back in business and I'm removing the ramshorns just to be sure.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Probably the snails, I think Malaysian Trumpet Snails are egg safe with Apistogramma, I have hundreds in my tanks and the fish breed successfully, also the females can then spend many happy hours picking the snails up, and spitting them out a couple of inches away from the cave. I've never kept other more ornamental snails.

Ingo Seidel recommends MTS for egg cleaning duties when artificially rearing young plecs, although there is quite a lot on some of the Killi forums suggesting that they eat Killi eggs.

cheers Darrel

 

[KelVarnson]

Mother is the guilty egg eater

Well this morning, for the third day in a row, I had a batch of eggs so I decided to keep an eye on things to see why they keep disappearing. The ramshorms were removed yesterday. When the lights came on, the female quickly ate all the eggs. Maybe she needs a darker place to lay them where she'll feel more secure, or perhaps more time in the tank to get used to the routine. The pair have only been in there for 10 days.

 

[Mike Wise]

It will work eventually. The next time that you have eggs, you might want to place a small (3W) night light over the tank. I have had A. bitaeniata that were the same as your cacatuoides. This seems to keep them from being startled by the sudden lighting of the aquarium.

 

[KelVarnson]

They're here!

OK, is it possible the eggs were not eaten but just moved? I was getting amazed that such a little fish could lay a batch of eggs 5 days in a row. Today I have free-swimming fry, so she must have been keeping the eggs. This is my first hatch ever from any breed of fish so I am pretty excited!

 

[Mike Wise]

Apisto eggs normally hatch after 3 days. The female will move the larvae (hard to see them) around the cave and even the aquarium at times. After 4 more days, the larvae will become freeswimming. My guess is that the eggs hatched but you didn't see the larvae. Good luck with your fry!