Cacatuoides breeding already?

[nekomi]

Hi all,

Just yesterday I received a beautiful pair of wild blue Apistogramma cacatuoides from Neil here at apistogramma.com. I can't believe it, but it looks to me like they are already beginning breeding behavior!

The female spent her whole first day in the new tank exploring, and eventually took a major interest in a driftwood "cave". She spent the evening swimming in and out and chasing away any cory cat that happened her way.

Then today, I noticed that the female has been pursuing the male almost single-mindedly. He doesn't seem too interested, but she keeps opening her fins nearby and rubbing herself against the male.

Is this courtship behavior after all? If it is, I'm completely amazed! I haven't even had these little guys 2 days!

The tank is a 12 gallon nano cube and houses the pair of cacs, plus a small group of pygmy corydoras and four fancy guppies (my husband's fish ^_^). There are some live plants, but they are barely "live" anymore, as the light's ballast went out and I'm waiting for a replacement to arrive. So the fish have been living in the dim light cast by the tank "next door", and from what I can tell, mainly feeding on snails off the bottom, along with a mild interest in flake and freeze-dried foods.

Thanks for any replies!

 

[cdawson]

I would remove all but the cacs, they will relentlessly pursue and attack all the other fish until they're dead or removed. Sounds like your pair has spawned for you already.

My female often does the "booty shake" at my male while she's caring for fry/spawns. It never ends up in anything but she has on occasion removed a tiny section of fin from his back tail.

If you really want them to do well, I would stop feeding them flakes. It's too high in protein to feed full-time. Get them some frozen foods.

 

[fishgeek]

isnt the point , to some extent . of other fish to re-enforce the pair bond

ie some threat to unite against ?

i dont find any of mine to be that aggressive though if it is a small tank i guess any aggro will be magnified

andrew

 

[cdawson]

My pair is by itself, and they both raise the fry together barely any aggression except when the male comes to close to the breeding cave.

If other fish were added to the tank most likely unless the eggs/female were immediately removed that the other fish would likely either eat the fry or the eggs. A really good dither fish that doesn't eat the fry or the eggs are pencil fish.

 

[nekomi]

Thanks to everyone for their replies! Yes, I added my dither fish with the idea of redirecting aggression from the male cac. So far, there hasn't been any major aggression from the female to any of her tankmates - at most, she just gently chases the cories away from the driftwood cave. The pair still seems to be getting along well, but I doubt that she has laid any eggs yet, as she's still moving all over the tank, and doesn't seem to be guarding any particular spot.

For now, I'm going to leave all the fish intact, but if a problem develops, I'll start moving out the dithers and cories.

In any case, how long should I expect this courting to continue before a spawn? What do the eggs look like? Anything to watch out for, besides the female's aggression?

Thanks again!

 

[cdawson]

Actually, while guarding a clutch my female only goes in the cave whenever the male or others get close. She doesn't tend to stay just inside the cave, unless she doesn't feel secure. Her chasing the cories away is a sure sign she's caring for a clutch. She will also be a bright yellow now as well.

The eggs look like any other type of cichlid eggs, only they're fire engine red.

If she's laid them inside a piece of driftwood you'll probably never see them. The best way to breed apistos is with a clay pot,coconut shell or a clay breeding cave. That way when the female lays a clutch you can remove her and the eggs so that they can be cared for in another tank. Then after two weeks you can re-introduce the female to the male where they'll spawn again. If you just leave them in the current tank most likely the other fish will prey on the fry when they become free-swimming. Even larger, older fry will prey on the smaller fry.

 

[fishgeek]

most often i dont notice the spawning nor the egg's , just the female staying closer to a particular spot or even dissapearing totally

within7-10 days the female may then bring free swimming fry out of hiding

mine still show some courting behaviour all the way through this period

andrew

 

[scott]

if your plan is to have them spawn and raise the fry to adults, the first problem you will probably have is the cories. i have a pair of cacs in my 40 gal discus tank which also houses about a dozen cories, even though the tank is well planted with lots of driftwood and flower pots the pair has never raised a clutch due to the cories raiding the nest and eating the eggs or wrigglers. since it is not my intent to raise fry in this particular tank i don't mind, but my point is that apistogrammas have no way to defend against armored catfish. in my breeding tanks i normally remove the male after the spawn and allow the female to raise the fry herself, on occaison i do leave the male in to watch the "family". i find that sometimes the pair will want to spawn again while the existing fry are still young and will eat them so they don't pose a threat to the new spawn. that is the reason i remove the male. i actually have a tank right now that the male is raising the fry by himself because he chased of the female the day the fry became free swimming and i had to remove her so he wouldn't injur or even kill her. sorry about rambling on i just wanted to share some of my experiences to possibly help you out with your fish. good luck.

 

[cawa1031]

I like your homepage ...

...What do the eggs look like?......
Thanks again!

The eggs look like this...

ps. Your website is very interesting, and your paniting is really cool~ ^_^

 

[nekomi]

Thanks again to everyone for their replies!

The female doesn't look too yellow to me - unfortunately, that could be because the ballast in that tank is out and I'm waiting for a replacement before I can get my lighting back. -_- However, there is some light coming from the tank next door, and she appears to be the same as always, with, however, more pronounced black markings on her fins, face, and mid-body. Her ventral fins have a yellowish tinge to them.

I've peeked around, but I don't see any eggs. However, you may be right when you say that the cories may have eaten them... I don't have a third tank set up, so I'll have to find something to do with the cories.

By the way, thanks for the compliment on my website! ^_^

 

[aspen]

>>'I don't have a third tank set up, so I'll have to find something to do with the cories.'


i've heard they are good deep fried. i don't keep cories with dwarfs, they are good egg eaters.

rick

 

[fishgeek]

wouldnt have though pygmy's would be much worry to cac's at all

andrew

 

[scott]

i've seen a group of cories wipe out a nest of eggs in the blink of an eye. i'm sure pygmys could do the same if the opportunity was there. my thoughts on this is better safe than sorry, move them out if possible.

 

[fishgeek]

i keep cory's and apisto's together
yes they will eat egg's if they get a chance
size i do believe matters in who may win the battle

pygmy cories may not be so much of a threat as they are likely smaller than even the cac female and may have the effect of actually keeping mum and dad focused

certainly watch and if you see them getting to the egg's
or sometimes even just causing mum or dad to get agitated amongst fry and disperse a tigth group with fast movements

then remove the corys
i just think the smaller one's may be less hassle in this case

andrew

 

[nekomi]

I moved the cories out of one of my tanks and into the other one. Unfortunately, both tanks have breeding pairs of apistos, but as the second one is much more heavily planted, I believe the eggs may have a better chance. At least now one of the pairs has a chance to raise a brood.

Still, I'm going to find an LFS or a hobbyist nearby that can take the cories. It's unfortunate, because I really liked the little guys... can anyone recommend an egg-friendly cleanup crew?

 

[depthc]

Ive read of others keeping pygmy corys with their apistos. Honestly i dont think it should be much of a worry since they are such small corys. But just keep an eye on them if your having doubts and keep them well fed.

Oh never mind that then, heh. I wish i were around you. Ive been looking for pygmy's for a while locally and they are never around.

Andrew

 

[Apistt_ed]

I moved the cories out of one of my tanks and into the other one. Unfortunately, both tanks have breeding pairs of apistos, but as the second one is much more heavily planted, I believe the eggs may have a better chance. At least now one of the pairs has a chance to raise a brood.

Still, I'm going to find an LFS or a hobbyist nearby that can take the cories. It's unfortunate, because I really liked the little guys... can anyone recommend an egg-friendly cleanup crew?

Otto cats are a must for cleanup crew. They don't harm your plants, eggs, fry... just the green algae in the tank. A 30 gallon tank would do fine with a group of 3-4. I have at least a trio in every tank. Good luck.