Breed your A. sp. Kelleri because...

[pipokoeie]

hello Tom and others,,


i have read that kelleri's are monogaam,,
in my kelleri tanks i have no other fish,,
the male from the pair do nothing ,, then eath and go very fat,,
i have told that i have a female from Mark ,
she stays alone in a tank next to him,, but she can't see him,,
i have yesterday the male switch over to that tank to try if that male want to breed with that female,,
if he want that i think they are not so monogaam
i know i take a risk ,,

pipokoeie is nothing spectalerie,

regards Tom

 

[Mike Wise]

i have read that kelleri's are monogaam

They are not exactly monogamous. They are more like species of the nijsseni-group. They form a pair bond for breeding. The male remains close to the female and helps in the direct care of the fry if needed. Males of most apisto species do not help with direct care of the fry, only his territory which contains the female's territory. A male usually will breed with any female if she is the only female in the tank - and is ready to breed. If there are 2 females, the male usually selects only 1 with which to breed. True monogamous apistos are rare. It is usually the female who decides with which male to form a bond. If that male is removed the female sometimes will choose another male, but sometimes rejects other males. I had a female A. iniridae who would only breed with one small male. When he died, the other males (3) were ignored by the female. I got no more fry from this female.

 

[pipokoeie]

thank you Mike,,
i have a question,,
is there somebody that can tell what the ph is in the rainseason ?,,
is the ph then lower ore is that just higher in the rainseason?
and is the rainseason also the breeding season?
thank you ,,
regards Tom

 

[Microman]

Interesting....

The differences between the two pairs:

The pair with the non-mouthbrooding female:
Tank: 85 liters (70x35x35cm)
Other fish in the tank: 20 small youngsters of Nannostomus marginatus and one pair of Copella vilmae
Plants: Some floating plants, a couple of small Echinodorus,and some Cabomba aquatica.
pH: 4,6 Conductivity: 102 microSiemens/cm Temp.: 26,7 degrees C (80,0 F)

The pair with the mouthbrooding female:
Tank: 160 liters (100x40x40 cm)
Other fish in the tank: none
Plants: Some floating plants, a couple of large Echinodorus
pH: 5,6 Conductivity: 90 microSiemens/cm Temp.: 25,7 degrees C (78.3 F)

Both tanks have fine sand, wood, and peat filtered black-water.
The water movement is approximately the same.
The length of the day is 30 minutes shorter in the tank where mouthbrooding takes place.
The food is the same (Black mosquito-larvae and fresh BBS)

I'm looking forward to see if the number of fry is equal.......

Very interesting this Tom.
Your Non Mouthbrooding female/pair with the very large brood of approx 50 fry.

This female/pair of "Kelleri" are very unlike the many pairs of A.barlowi that i have worked with since 2005. A large brood of A.barlowi would most likely be split (approximately 50/50) and be cared for/mouthbrooded by both male and female whilst sharing a tank with other species, be they predatory in nature or not.
Has anybody noticed a male"Kelleri"taking part in brood caring duties to date? I have not with my 2 pairs....
Mark...

 

[Erik82]

Has anybody noticed a male"Kelleri"taking part in brood caring duties to date? I have not with my 2 pairs....
Mark...

Personally i don't have. But an other guy in the Netherlands have seen this kind of behavior, see this internetlink:
http://www.dwergcichlide.nl/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3153&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45

 

[Mike Wise]

thank you Mike,,
i have a question,,
is there somebody that can tell what the ph is in the rainseason ?,,
is the ph then lower ore is that just higher in the rainseason?
and is the rainseason also the breeding season?
thank you ,,
regards Tom

Most people don't sample during the rainy season, but I doubt that the pH will be much higher then. The pH of rainfall (rain before it hits the ground) is around pH 5.8. This is due to the CO2 absorbed by the rain drops as they fall through the air and form a weak carbonic acid (H2CO3) solution. Once the water interacts with the surface it can become more or less acid, depending on the acidity of the surface. In heavy rain it probably remains close to the same pH, because it has little time to react with the surface before being diluted with more rain water. It also could change pH rapidly, depending on the surface, because rain has no buffering capacity (basically distilled water).

 

[Tom C]

Very interesting this Tom.
Your Non Mouthbrooding female/pair with the very large brood of approx 50 fry.

Today I counted 54 fry, and I think there were still some hiding...!

....Has anybody noticed a male "Kelleri" taking part in brood caring duties to date? I have not with my 2 pairs...

My males couldn't care less, ....they completely overlook both the fry and the female ( A behavior I myself would never dared....:biggrin: )

......see this internetlink:
http://www.dwergcichlide.nl/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3153&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45

It seems to be impossible to enter this site without being registrated.
Could you just tell us about his experiences, Erik?

 

[Erik82]

Could you just tell us about his experiences, Erik?

I have asked him to use his photo's. To be continued..

 

[Erik82]

Well, i have permission to post some pictures of the kelleri of a dutch guy. He has a couple kelleri's coming from Mimbon. The fishes are swimming in tap water, acidified with peat. Probably high EC, pH around 6.5 KH around 2 - 3 dGH bit to high if you asked me 4 - 6

If I am right, he did not have successfully breed the kelleri. But even the male as female were mouth breeding. Here some pictures:
Photographs by Martijn:

Male mouth breeding

Female mouth breeding

 

[Tom C]

.....If I am right, he did not have successfully breed the kelleri. But even the male as female were mouth breeding. Here some pictures....

Thank you for these nice and very interesting pictures, Erik!
This species seems capable to breed in the same manners as A. barlowi.
Amazing that my (and others') males completely ignore the female and the fry, while other males mouthbrood!

My mouthbrooding female has freeswimming fry too, now. As expected, she seems to have around 25- 30 fry, which is half the amount of fry compared to the non-mouthbrooding female.

 

[pipokoeie]

hi Tom and others,,
my female has not mouthbrood,,?anyway i have not seen it,,
but she has 20 a 25 younsters and they are 10 days old now,,
the male did nothing,, same as by you,,
i have told that the male is turn to a other female,,
but that goes not so good,,
the male not accepted that female,,
i go split them again,,
greetss Tom