Borellii fry

[Karin]

Hi all
I have a Borellii male and three females. Two of them were caring for fry one after the other. No fry survive more than two weeks. It happens twice to the biggest female, and once to the second female. The third one is guarding eggs right now. I thought first that the biggest female was just a lousy mother, but now that the second mom lost her fry too, I am suspecting on the male who seems to start having feelings for any of the mothers when the fry is around that time. He starts courtship on moms which seem to be bothered by him. Suddenly they turn grey-yellow and no more fry is on sight by then. Should I take the male out when the females start guarding eggs back again? Is really him? Taking him out will not be easy…

 

[gerald]

Another option is to take out some of the fry (with net or siphon) and raise them in another tank. You don't need to catch them all.

 

[Mike Wise]

A. borellii have the reputation of being one of the best parents among apistos. What are you feeding your fry?

 

[Karin]

A. borellii have the reputation of being one of the best parents among apistos. What are you feeding your fry?

Thank you, Gerald and Mike.

I feed the tank with Panagrellus. But this time, in view of the difficulty, I also started to feed newly hatched artemia as well (hating it). My former male (the father of these Borelliis) was the kindest with her female… I raised many little ones from different broods, in a smaller tank, all together and feeding the same. Don’t know what might be happening now.

 

[Mike Wise]

Is there any chance that the females are stealing fry from each other? I've lost broods of borellii because of this. I would also expect better success with BBS than microworms, or better yet a mix of the two.

 

[Bart Hazes]

I've had the same with a pair of Apistogramma sp. Melgar. The female would disappear for a week while guarding eggs & wrigglers and then show up bright yellow with fry. Within a day the male would badger her, seeming to want to spawn again, to the point she gave up on the fry. That happened 4 or 5 times until the last one went very smoothly and ~60 fry are growing up nicely and were raised with their parents for more than 2 months. I guess this male was a slow learner but he got with the program eventually.

 

[Karin]

Is there any chance that the females are stealing fry from each other? I've lost broods of borellii because of this. I would also expect better success with BBS than microworms, or better yet a mix of the two.

Yes Mike. Is it possible that females eat the fry of the others? Curiously it is like there is each day a little less fry from each female and then, ops, they are gone...
How many times a day do you advice to feed fry, either with microworms, BBS or both?

thank you so much!

 

[Karin]

I've had the same with a pair of Apistogramma sp. Melgar. The female would disappear for a week while guarding eggs & wrigglers and then show up bright yellow with fry. Within a day the male would badger her, seeming to want to spawn again, to the point she gave up on the fry. That happened 4 or 5 times until the last one went very smoothly and ~60 fry are growing up nicely and were raised with their parents for more than 2 months. I guess this male was a slow learner but he got with the program eventually.

May be males need a little time to learn...hope so! On the other hand, I had that Nijsseni male who chased away the mother and took control of parenthood all the way long till the fry was out of danger.
In the borelli case it looks like females fight and fight, chasing him away until they get tired and give up... sort of.

 

[JoeriD]

How about taking out 2 females and just leave the male with 1 female. Maybe 3 is just to much and they can see each other to much which causes them to get aggrivated and start stealing the fry?

 

[Karin]

How about taking out 2 females and just leave the male with 1 female. Maybe 3 is just to much and they can see each other to much which causes them to get aggrivated and start stealing the fry?

Thank you, Joeri, I think I will considered that, May be that will make everybody happy!

 

[JoeriD]

Hope it works for you

 

[Mike Wise]

IMHO it is less that the females eat each other's fry, but instead the fry get lost in transfers or starve. Fry orient to a female's signals about when it's safe to move around and feed. When 2 females squabble over fry the fry get confused, drop to the bottom and don't feed as they would normally. This is a typical fry response when their mother signals danger.

I try to feed my fry 2X per day, but they also feed off the debris in the tank, too.

 

[JoeriD]

What could be a reason that fry get eaten by females then? I case off lets say a disturbance or threat by other females? Any idea mike?

 

[Karin]

IMHO it is less that the females eat each other's fry, but instead the fry get lost in transfers or starve. Fry orient to a female's signals about when it's safe to move around and feed. When 2 females squabble over fry the fry get confused, drop to the bottom and don't feed as they would normally. This is a typical fry response when their mother signals danger.

I try to feed my fry 2X per day, but they also feed off the debris in the tank, too.

yes... I am confused on what I saw... each female seemed to care for their fry at the right time, in quiet separate moments. But obviously something is not going well. I will try to find out what, having in mind all of your comments. Thanks a lot!