Blue fin sources.. & genetic surveys of Pelv.

[Samala]

Aha! I found you!

So this is where some of you Apisto Mailing List members started congregating. I havent seen traffic on that list in ages, looks like everyone came here instead! I'm so glad that it isn't that Apistophiles have gone extinct, just the mailing list really. This makes my day! :biggrin:

I was just wondering if anyone knew of a source for that gorgeous new 'Pelvicachromis' sp. 'blue fin' species? I want some!!!! I could trade some subo's or line bred pulchers... they have lots of ocelli... hmmm?? I know, not quite tempting enough.

Also, I posed this question to the AML years ago and got back a mixed response - are there any molecular systematic surveys ongoing in Apistogramma and Pelvicachromis genuses? The response on Apistos was that there was a small study at the moment, but unpublished findings back in 2003.. has that been published or is it a phd candidate's project and still on hold??

No reponse on the Pelvicachromis members. I would really like to see any links to articles on this. I would love to look at putting together a potential systematics project. Any references to start me off with? I'll have to go rummaging through PubMed all over again I think.

>Sarah

 

[Randall]

Molecular studies

Hello Sarah and welcome,

Glad you found us. Surely, many of the old Apistogramma Mailing List folks utilize this site.

To zero in on your questions, Apistogramma molecular studies have been done. Unfortunately, however, I am not familiar with them. Our Mike Wise is the best person to ask about this. If memory serves, he's speaking abroad for part of this month (March), but you can leave him a private message via this forum.

As for Pelvicachromis, I am not aware of any published molecular studies. Anton Lamboj recently described two Pelvicachromis species; but, as far as I know, he didn't utilize any molecular-based data in his descriptions. Currently, he is working with Pelvicachromis, and it is my understanding that molecular-based data will be utilized before any classifatory changes are proposed. Hopefully, we'll see something in writing from him this year (2005). Here are species profiles of the two new species mentioned:

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/Pel...s_rubrolabiatus/Pelvicachromis_rubrolabiatus/

http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/Pelvicachromis/Pelvicachromis_signatus/Pelvicachromis_signatus/

If you'd like to delve further, Ulrich Schliewen of the Max Planck Institute is a good person to contact. He did the molecular work on Etia nguti in conjuntion with Melanie Stiassny (http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/Etia/Etia_nguti/Etia_nguti/). Please contact me privately for his email address.

If memory serves, there was a broad-based molecular study done a few years ago, where genetic material extracted from three nuclear loci and two mitocondrial loci was analyzed. This was a broad systematic study, however, that focused on cichlid tribes, and not on individual species, in an attempt to partially resolve phylogenetic relationships between New World and Old World cichlid groups. For the life of me, I can't remember who published this study, but can try to find it, if you like.

Toyin Ojo brought in the 'Pelvicachromis' sp. "Blue Fin," after I nagged him about it for six months. Here's his web site: http://www.rehobothaquatics.com/, and here's all that we know about this form: http://www.apistogramma.com/cms/Pel...mis_sp._Blue_Fin/Pelvicachromis_sp._Blue_Fin/.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[Samala]

Thanks Randall for the help. I just got ahold of Toyin earlier today about acquiring a pair . I am guessing he is the one and only source for these right now. Glad that there is someone. Plus now I have an even better source for transvestitus.

As far as genetics, I did find a lot of tribe level systematic surveys, just as you said, that clarify more about new world and old world (again, just as you said). I think working on species level is a lot more fun but you need many many more markers for these sorts of studies usually, and even then sequencing is sometimes necessary for partial stretches of the genome. Not very economical, but still very cool (IMHO). Thanks for pointing me in the right direction for the references, etc.

Its funny that you mention Ulrich, I hear 'from' him through a graduate student at the MPI who is doing studies with zebrafish. I dont think she is directly in his study group, but probably just a colleague. Always interesting to see people's name pop up out of the blue though!

Cant wait to have those blue fins... surely there is a more evolved name for them? "cerulean.." Lol.

>Sarah

 

[Randall]

Chromosomal DNA

Hello Sarah,

With Etia nguti, Schliewen & Stiassny sequenced three genes--extracted from fin tissue--from three nuclear loci that Schliewen believes are relevant to the evolutionary process. The species samples utilized, however, were small (i.e., only two substate-spawning tilapiine species were included), and when the data was analyzed, phylogenetic resolution was problematic. The bottom line here is that the phylogeny of Etia nguti is not known, the molecular analysis notwithstanding.

Etia nguti is a cute little beast though. The next time Toyin has them maybe you'd like to get some and unravel its phylogenetic relationships. )

All the best,

Randall Kohn

 

[Xanathos]

You can get some blue fins from www.belowwater.com as well...

Phil