Assistance with what foods at what stage

[Drammy]

Hi all,

I have a 240L community tank with groups of a few different types of tetras, with the main fish being a wild male Apistogramma Agasizii (beautiful fish that I got from Ste12000...) and 4 female agasizii.

About 10 days ago I spotted some eggs and one of the females guarding them. After recent unsuccesful spawns, when I noticed the eggs had gone one morning I guessed they had been eaten. The next day I saw about 35 fry being guarded by one of the females. I kept an eye on them for 24 hours and asked for some advice. It was suggest that I sit this one out and set up another tank (which at the time I was using to allow a pair of Apistogramma recover from being bullied by the wild male) for breeding.

The next day the female seemed stressed defending her fry and I decided to rehome the recovering pair and syphon the fry into the other tank and put mum in with them. At first I thought this was a BIG mistake as a lot of mulm and rubbish was thrown up when I put them in the new tank. After about 4 hours mum had gathered all the fry and I reckon only a couple were lost in this process.

So I now have fry free swimming at about 7 days old. In total I reckon there are 28 fry left. They seem to have been enjoying eating algae and other particles off the moss balls and spawning cave in the grow out tank. 2 days ago I tried hatching some baby brine shrimp but the fry didn't seem interested.

I have a few questions if anyone minds taking the time to answer:

1. At what age are the fry correctly termed "free-swimming"?
2. At what age should I start feeding them baby brine shrimp?
3. Will the fry continue to enjoy the algae, if so for how long?
4. When should I remove Mum?
5. Is there any advantage of having lights on the tank other than to regenerate the algae?
6. I have some grade 0 red crumb, when and for how long should I feed the fry this food?
7. What other foods should I feed and at what stages?

Apologies for the list of questions, I've done many searches but would appreciate an opportunity to group some questions together... Perhaps others can also benefit from the answers, I know I certainly will!


Thanks for your patience,
Drammy

 

[dw1305]

Foods

Hi Drammy,
Congratulations on the spawn. Do you have any microworms, grindal worms or vinegar eels? If you do I'd start feeding these. All the fry will be able to eat the microworms & vinegar eels and they may already be able to tackle the smallest grindal worms. I was looking at some fry that have been free swimming for about a fortnight this morning, and they are already eating grindal worms.

You can buy cultures from "Aquarists classified" etc. or I can post a starter culture of each of the worms if that would help?

I always keep grindal/microworm cultures going, they are very cheap to run and low maintenance and I never found a fish that didn't eat grindal worms. Vinegar eels would be even lower maintenance (and TA aquaculture are selling cultures of them), but a bit more trouble to feed to the fry.

Usually the fry go for movement, so I'm surprised they didn't have a go at the BBS. As soon as they are free swimming they will be looking for food.

They will continue to pick at the biofilm, but you need some more food, as a last resort try squeezing a filter sponge out and pipetting the mulm into the fry, you can't see them, but there will be thousands of rotifers present.

The grade 0 red crumb is apparently very good, I'd try feeding it with something that moves to get the fry interested.

Best of luck Darrel

 

[electric eel]

here is something that i have'nt seen anyone mention on here.the size of freshly hatched bbs varies a lot depending on where they are from.(i don't remember the numbers exactly)the utah brine shrimp are fairly large i'm thinking around 600 microns and the san francisco bay variety i think are around 525microns.i purchased some "micro"brineshrimp from jehmco a couple years ago(from asia) that i think john told me were around 425microns.the percentage of H.U.F.A.(the fatty acid that help the fry grow quickly) also varies.i believe john told me that the utah's are only around 4% hufa while the microbrine were around 15%.my newly freeswimming rams could take the microbrine from day one while it would be day 3 or 4 before they could take the utah bbs.a guy in my club has been using the goldlabel eggs from china.he says that he has been getting the best hatch rate he has ever gotten and that the bbs look smaller then the utah bbs.i suspect that the chinese bbs are also higher in hufa.does anyone know for sure?

 

[Drammy]

Thans guys, there some interesting suggestions there.

I haven't got any of those worms, tried microworms once but the culture I received smelt so foul I didn't fancy putting it in any of my tanks! So Darrel, if the offer still stands I'd very much appreciate it. Let me know the costs and I'll sort it out, thanks.

I'll try mixing the BBS with some of the red crumb and see how that turns out...

What about these 2 q's:
- When should I remove Mum?
- Is there any advantage of having lights on the tank other than to regenerate the algae?

Ta,
Drammy

 

[dw1305]

Worms

Hi Drammy,
PM your address to me, and I'll put them in the post. I don't want any money.
I've also got plenty of spare Ceratopteris and Salvinia if you can use them.

Feeding microworms is the interesting bit, have a look at this post.
<http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=8558>

I feed my microworm cultures with rolled oats, and the grindal worms with "quick porridge" oat cereal and neither of them smells. I also feed my old microworm cultures to the grindal worms (when I re-culture) and that really gets them growing well.

cheers Darrel

 

[Drammy]

Thanks very much Darrel, I'll drop you a PM... Much appreciated.

I'm always impressed with how generous and helpful folk are on this forum!


Cheers!
Drammy

 

[electric eel]

hey drammy!sorry i got off on a tangent about the bbs.i figured someone more knowledeable then me would answer your other questions.my point was it can vary as to when the fry can take bbs depending on which ones they are.you have to put some in and watch them.generally as darrel said they will chase them even before they are able to eat them(they are attracted to the movement) and initially they may only be able to eat one or two.altough i would'nt recomend it i have about 25 one inch long agazizi fry in with mom and dad(in a 20gallon tank)they have'nt bothered them but her subsequent spawns have gotten eaten pretty quickly(by the fry/juvies).also i've been doing the microworms lately(this is the 3rd go at it) and feeding oats as darrel said.this time i've had no problems don't know why i had problems in the past.

 

[Drammy]

No worries E Eel.

Any info is appreciated... For the last 2 days they have been happily taking BBS. I have around 20 fry and probably feed about 100 bbs at a time, 3 times a day.

Does that sound about right?

 

[electric eel]

you just have to watch them.their stomachs will start to bulge as they get full and they will eat more and more as they get bigger.the good thing about apisto's is that mom and dad will eat the bbs as well.it took me a little while to get the feel for feeding angelfish fry(as to how many bbs)they will literally eat bbs to the point where their stomachs will rupture.smaller frequent meals are always better with small fry but between work and family 3 feedings a day is the best i can usually manage and it works pretty well.my agazizi seem to be pretty hardy.i don't think you will have any problems.

.

 

[Drammy]

OK, cool - I must admit I noticed their bellies were a bit full, think I may have overdone it on the last couple of days. Will try to be more re-active rather than pro-active.

 

[Drammy]

Darrel - just wanted to say a big THANKS! The cultures and plants arrived this morning. I've already repotted them and planted them - looking good!
:biggrin:
Many thanks for your generosity!
Drammy

 

[Drammy]

At what size fry will microworms stop being nutritious enough?

I have read that at 1/4 inch (fry) the microworms are not a significant enough feed for the fry. Is this true - should I start feeding grindelworms at this tage?

 

[dw1305]

Grindal worms

Hi Drammy,
Try the grindal worms, they should be able to manage them.
If your grindal worms are growing well when you wash them of the glass, you'll get all sizes in the tank. I tend to feed a small amount of grindal worms every day to all the fish, it keeps them occupied for a long time, and it reminds me to feed the grindal worm cultures.
cheers Darrel

 

[Drammy]

Just thought I'd drop a quick message to say thanks you to everyone thats helped me with my constant questions over the last few weeks.

Most of the fry have made it - I've only lost about 5 and they are currently between 3/4 to 7/8 inch long at 7 weeks old.

Here are some pics of them today.

Thanks again for your help,
Drammy