Appisto ID

[Nschubert]

I have a pair of appistos trying to confirm what the are. They were labeled purple apistogramma and i belive them to be the species eunotus? Sorry about the orientation

 

[MacZ]

They look an awful lot like my late A. cf. ortegai.
Mine were the "Pepas" variant, but I wouldn't go beyond the "cf. ortegai" for yours. I'm not yet as confident in my ID skills with Apistogramma.

 

[Nschubert]

They look an awful lot like my late A. cf. ortegai.
Mine were the "Pepas" variant, but I wouldn't go beyond the "cf. ortegai" for yours. I'm not yet as confident in my ID skills with Apistogramma.

You might be right, they were supposedly wild caught which could explain the subdued coloration.

 

[Mike Wise]

What does the female look like?

 

[Nschubert]

What does the female look like?

The second picture is the female,

here's another one.

 

[Mike Wise]

OK, a A. cf. ortegai (Pebas) female. Not quite sure about the male, however.

 

[Nschubert]

OK, a A. cf. ortegai (Pebas) female. Not quite sure about the male, however.

Thanks Mike! Same at first glance i thought eunotus but after reading Apistogramma ortegai (Teleostei: Cichlidae), a new species of cichlid fish from the Ampyiacu River in the Peruvian Amazon basin, my guess would be ortegai. I threw in a a better side view if this helps.

 

[MacZ]

"cf. ortegai" means a location variety, "like ortegai but distinct". "Pebas" is the locality in question here.

And the male looks exactly like the one I had, I'm sure those are "Pebas".

 

[Mike Wise]

Yes, A. cf. ortegai (Pebas). Unpublished genetic studies show that A. ortegai and A. cf. ortegai (Pebas) are 2 distinct species. Olivera & Kullander unfortunately used type specimens for a locality that had been contaminated with the more desirable - and hard to get at - A. ortegai. Their holotype is A. ortegai, of course, which previously was called A. sp. Papagai/Parrot. The paratypes are a mix of A. ortegai and A. cf. ortegai (Pebas). I could add more information on the species, but I don't want to confuse/scare you. ;-)

 

[Nschubert]

Yes, A. cf. ortegai (Pebas). Unpublished genetic studies show that A. ortegai and A. cf. ortegai (Pebas) are 2 distinct species. Olivera & Kullander unfortunately used type specimens for a locality that had been contaminated with the more desirable - and hard to get at - A. ortegai. Their holotype is A. ortegai, of course, which previously was called A. sp. Papagai/Parrot. The paratypes are a mix of A. ortegai and A. cf. ortegai (Pebas). I could add more information on the species, but I don't want to confuse/scare you. ;-)

Mike I would love to hear more about the species. Currently I am attending graduate school for fisheries biology and studying about speciation. From what I read about apistos it seems to me like specific populations can be found to be distinct enough to be their own due to loctations but still able to interbreed with other species in the genus when populations mix.

 

[Mike Wise]

As for the ortegai-complex species, I cannot really say more than that it appears that A. cf. ortegai (Pebas) is the fish Cope described as Geophagus amoenus in 1872. How/if this affect the validity of the name A. ortegai I will leave to taxonomists to decide.

What is a species and what is a population is slowly being revealed by genetic studies. Ready et al. 2006. Colour forms of Amazonian cichlid fish represent reproductively isolated species. J. Evol. Biol.19(4):1139-48 (for A. caetei) and Estivals et al. 2020. The Amazonian dwarf cichlid Apistogramma agassizii (Steindachner, 1875) is a geographic mosaic of potentially tens of species: Conservation implications. Aquatic Conservation Marine & Freshwater Ecosystems. 30(8): 1521-1539 (for A. agassizii) both use not only genetics, but mate-choice experiments in their determination of species. Rest assured that the genus may eventually be found to have hundreds more species than we now recognize.

 

[Nschubert]

As for the ortegai-complex species, I cannot really say more than that it appears that A. cf. ortegai (Pebas) is the fish Cope described as Geophagus amoenus in 1872. How/if this affect the validity of the name A. ortegai I will leave to taxonomists to decide.

What is a species and what is a population is slowly being revealed by genetic studies. Ready et al. 2006. Colour forms of Amazonian cichlid fish represent reproductively isolated species. J. Evol. Biol.19(4):1139-48 (for A. caetei) and Estivals et al. 2020. The Amazonian dwarf cichlid Apistogramma agassizii (Steindachner, 1875) is a geographic mosaic of potentially tens of species: Conservation implications. Aquatic Conservation Marine & Freshwater Ecosystems. 30(8): 1521-1539 (for A. agassizii) both use not only genetics, but mate-choice experiments in their determination of species. Rest assured that the genus may eventually be found to have hundreds more species than we now recognize.

Thanks for the articles, something for my free time. I would be interested to see what species in the genus have full reproductive isolation and which have the possibility of offspring. Maybe aquarium enthusiasts could or have done some home experiments to see which apistos have the ability to produce fertile hybrids and which have full reproductive isolation. Apistos seem like they are a good challenge to species concepts and will need genetics work to understand their evolutionary lineages.

 

[Mike Wise]

Most domestic color strains are actually crosses of 2 or more species: A. macmasteri, A. hongsloi, A. agassizii.