Apistogramma Panduro/Pandurini sexing help.

[Gaumblet]

Hello everyone,

Last weekend, I purchased a pair of Apistogramma Pandurini from a reputable local fish store that I frequent. These are my first cichlids, so it has been quite the learning experience so far. They are doing well, but I have been a bit puzzled by their behavior since settling into the tank...

The first 2 days in, they were always together scoping things out. 3 days in up until now, one of the pandurinis, that I was told is a male has established a brooding territory in one side of the tank in and around a large piece of driftwood. Now, the other pandurini, which I was told is a female cannot go near this territory without promptly being chased away to the opposite corner of the tank as soon as she has been spotted.

I have been doing some digging on the net, and am beginning to suspect that I might have 2 females on my hands. I have attached a couple of pictures to see if anyone in the know might be able to identify/sex them. They are both quite young, so colors are still developing. The first pic is the 'male' that has been extremely territorial. The second is the 'female' that is now confined to a small corner of the tank. This 'female' also shows a black spot on the belly that fades away more often than not.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Mike Wise]

Well, it looks like you have 1 of both sexes. The top fish is a female; the bottom is a male. If the female (top fish) is driving the male (bottom fish) away from her side of the tank, then she might have eggs/larvae.

 

[Gaumblet]

Thank you for the reply. That does make sense, and that's great. I suspected that if there was a male, it would be the paler one. He must be younger, because he is a little smaller than the female.

The female doesn't seem to care about Neon Tetras, or a Sunset Swordtail in the tank passing through, but everything else: Amano Shrimp, Cherry Shrimp, Corydoras Habrosus and the male get chased off immediately. I will have to see if any little ones pop up...

 

[Mike Wise]

My guess is that thing may change when fry appear. The Neons (if more than 6 and decent size) will have a nice meal. You might even lose a few if the female can catch any.

 

[Gaumblet]

I haven't seen sign of any eggs/larvae/fry yet.

Just wanted to show an updated pic of Panduro #2, in an aggressive mood. as colors have been coming in more. What is the telling factor in determining it as male?

 

[Mike Wise]

Compared to females, males typically have a blue body color and the dark marking are not as distinct. This can vary depending on mood. Males have more pointed tips on the dorsal and anal fins and little to no black spines on the ventral fins. Young males without territorial drive often will have female markings/colors at times. This will change once the instinct to breed appears.

 

[Mystic Fish]

I joined to say im in the same boat. Im pretty sure i have a female, i did have a "male" so the store told me, but i lost him up the filter. That problem is fixed now and i want to get one. After learning more they dont look like the blue ones with red on their tails in the pics. Im guessing the colors come with maturity... i think i remember him being aggressive before i bought him and he used to chase my female around basically taking up 3/4 of the tank as territory. I'd prefer that not to happen for my 30 gal tall community tank so more hiding spots and dont pick aggressive ones lol. I dont really care if they dont pair, that would probably be a good thing... still they all look like females...

Does anyone have more pics of un-matured* males/no color?

My comunity tank has 4 Kuhli Loach, 3 cardinal tetra (will be 6), Maybe 4 Black Emperor Tetra, and 1 Apisto Panduro (want blue male)


*I couldnt say "young", just seemed wrong...

heres my female (im pretty sure...?)

 

[Gaumblet]

I am told that males are easier to find than females, so a replacement shouldn't be too big of an ordeal, if the sexing is accurate. I'm still not positive on exactly what to look for so I can't be of much help.

Just an update on my Panduros: The identified Male has gradually started to show more of a light purple color now, along with some occasional territorial aggression on his side of the tank, and red highlights are starting to show on the Caudal fin.

The female has also shown more friendly behavior during some parts of the day. Mostly in the mornings, I see the two together on her side of the tank, and I have witnessed her trying to lure the male into her driftwood cave two times now. The male seems uninterested as of yet, which results in being chased away to the opposite side of the tank.

 

[Mystic Fish]

Good to see your male colors coming out. Not sure if him being aggressive has to do with dislike or maturity or what? best of luck.

You're right, it wasn't too hard... I went back to get a male and i could see 3, they've started to color up now. I chose the one with the most color (a light blue shine with that red stripe on tail). I was a little hesitant to get him cause he already seemed to have a mate. And i think they only choose one for life? Or maybe just fussy choosers? He didnt seem aggressive, he was the most colorful.. i got him.. guilty i hope theres not too much drama in my tank...

As he was acclimatizing to the temp, my female was already up at his bag attacking him. She turned all yellow with a black line thru her body, never seen her defensive/aggressive colors before... Also my cardinal tetras were happy to greet their new friends (3 more cardinal tetras). that was pretty awesome, everyone was around this bag lol

When i let them out my male Panduro went straight between a rock to hide. I think he must of realized it was just her cause he eventually came out and set her straight. She was defensive/aggressive/shaken up/scared but he wasn't doing much just flaring his gills "stop trippin" when they met, didn't even chase her when she ran. Once she was above a leaf where she couldn't see him, he came up from below and lightly touched her tail. She took off abit and turned around, he was like "see, your trippin" lol

So thats good no aggression, infact the next day they seem be together.. or friends atleast. awesome

 

[Jittabug88]

Hello everyone,

Last weekend, I purchased a pair of Apistogramma Pandurini from a reputable local fish store that I frequent. These are my first cichlids, so it has been quite the learning experience so far. They are doing well, but I have been a bit puzzled by their behavior since settling into the tank...

The first 2 days in, they were always together scoping things out. 3 days in up until now, one of the pandurinis, that I was told is a male has established a brooding territory in one side of the tank in and around a large piece of driftwood. Now, the other pandurini, which I was told is a female cannot go near this territory without promptly being chased away to the opposite corner of the tank as soon as she has been spotted.

I have been doing some digging on the net, and am beginning to suspect that I might have 2 females on my hands. I have attached a couple of pictures to see if anyone in the know might be able to identify/sex them. They are both quite young, so colors are still developing. The first pic is the 'male' that has been extremely territorial. The second is the 'female' that is now confined to a small corner of the tank. This 'female' also shows a black spot on the belly that fades away more often than not.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

So since a common thing with dwarf cichlid especially apisto is the sneaker male, over my 8ish years of breeding these awesome little guys I've learned the 1 and only true way to guarantee sexing them even when small juvenile. On their pectoral fins that hang down the female will ALWAYS have black on the front portion while the male will not. Hope it helps.

 

[MacZ]

Erm... the thread is from 2014.

 

[Mike Wise]

On their pectoral fins that hang down the female will ALWAYS have black on the front portion while the male will not. Hope it helps.

... and this is not always true, especially in pertensis-group and agassizii-lineage species.