Apistogramma caetei?

[GLIDD]

Here are two more pics that may help with the ID thanks.

 

[Mike Wise]

Yes & no. It looks like one of the species sold as A. caetei. It probably is A. cf. caetei "Rotwangen/Red-cheeks" (A30). After DNA studies by Ready, which shows 3 distinct species are in the "species" we call A. caetei, I'm not sure I can identify the true A. caetei without knowing where it was collected.

 

[GLIDD]

A.caetei

Thanks,now I can label them as A.cf.caetei and be correct.

 

[Zapisto]

Thanks,now I can label them as A.cf.caetei and be correct.

i think yes.

Mike can you give the 3 different location corresponding to the 3 species ?
thanks

 

[Mike Wise]

Mike can you give the 3 different location corresponding to the 3 species ?

A. caetei - Rio Caeté & Rio Apeú (and probably forms from the Rio Gurupi [A26] & Turiaçu [A29])

A. cf. caetei Guamá [A27] - Rio Guamá (and probably A cf. caetei Capim [A28] from the Rio Capim)

A. cf. caetei Marapanim - Rio Marapanim

The most commonly available species in the caetei-complex is A. cf. caetei (Rotwangen/Red-cheeks) [A30] from the Ilha de Marajó.

See: Ready, J. S., I. Sampaio, H. Schneider, C. Vinson, T. Dos Santos, G. F. Turner (2006) Colour forms of Amazonian cichlid fish represent reproductively isolated species. J. Evol. Biol. 19(4): 1139-48

 

[Zapisto]

Thanks mike.

Mine was wild caugth from rio caete, few years back.
this was amazing, by they school behavior, not the most colorful fish i see , but cute and very gentle with fry.
i manage to have 4 generation in 15g heavyly planted and i did see any agression between them
amazing.

 

[Mike Wise]

Can you tell us who collected them in the Rio Caeté? Private or commercial collector?

 

[Zapisto]

Can you tell us who collected them in the Rio Caeté? Private or commercial collector?

really dont know mike.
i did get them from oliver years ago.

 

[Mike Wise]

Since you got them from Oliver (who imported, but did not collect them) & you don't know who collected them, I would not want to ID them as A. caetei. If I could see better photos of the caudal fin, I might be able to better verify the ID. The dark rows of spots on A. caetei are the same width as the lighter interstitial area. On Rotwangen the dark spot rows are wider than the lighter interstitial areas.

 

[Zapisto]

Hi Mike, I think some misunderstanding here.
I did not id mine as A. Caetei.
i was just saying, that , the fish i had, was "supposely" collected from rio Caeté.
i have no way to verify if there was actually collected there , but when Oliver says it was collected in Rio Caeté, i have no reason to not believe him.

Dont have the fish anymore , so let say it was a cf caetei collected supposely in rio Caeté ...

thanks

 

[Chris(wildcaught!)]

Continuing this thread with some questions.

Since I have bought A. caetei or cf. caetei just recently, I'm kind of curious to see if which one of them I have, and I don't know collecting site more precise than Brazil.

Which A-number corresponds to A. caetei?
Is the type material corresponding to different collecting sites?
Are A 26, 27 (31?) forms that don't show red cheeks as A 28 - 30 do. Or is the color not an important feature?

As Römer writes in CA1 " .. a typical T-shaped marking is formed at ..." I mean the one that is just forward of the caudual spot, Is this common feature for A cf. caetei species?

And Mike what about this that you mentioned in previous post "A. cf. caetei Marapanim - Rio Marapanim"
is it a new one without A number?

I can think of a few dozen more questions, but this will be a stating point at least.

Regards / Chris

 

[Mike Wise]

Continuing this thread with some questions.

Since I have bought A. caetei or cf. caetei just recently, I'm kind of curious to see if which one of them I have, and I don't know collecting site more precise than Brazil.

Which A-number corresponds to A. caetei?

That is a good question. The type material of A. caetei comes from the Rio Apeu and Rio Caeté. The holotype is from the Caeté. Ready et al. (2006) has A. caetei coming from the Rio Caeté, Rio Piquioira, & Rio Quatipuru, but the Apeu has the Rio Guamá/Capim form. Thus, the type material has 2 genetically different species - but these are more closely related to each other than they are to the Marapanim form. Of the A. (cf.) caetei forms pictured, I doubt that any are the true A. caetei (Rio Caeté/Quatipuru/Piquioira), but the Rio Gurupi (A. 26) and the highly colorful Rio Turiaçu forms (A29) are the closest to the holotype form, both physically & in their distribution. I believe that these are A. caetei.

Is the type material corresponding to different collecting sites?
Are A 26, 27 (31?) forms that don't show red cheeks as A 28 - 30 do. Or is the color not an important feature?

Ready visually separates the 3 species that he studied based on color: "Marapanim males show a purple colouration {no A#; no red cheek markings - mw}. Guamá/Capim males {A27 & A28 - mw} show a blue-grey colouration without red cheek markings. Males from the other Atlantic rivers {does not include A. sp. Rotwangen/Red-cheeks {A30 - mw}, which was not part of the study - mw} show a blue-grey colouration with red cheek markings and more iridescent colour on the flank." This may work for wild fish, but domestic fish can be color enhanced by foods & selective (cross-)breeding.

As Römer writes in CA1 " .. a typical T-shaped marking is formed at ..." I mean the one that is just forward of the caudual spot, Is this common feature for A cf. caetei species?

It would be more accurate to describe the pattern as appearing as a downward bend of the lateral band, in front of the caudal spot. This downward bend is actually a more strongly pigmented part of Bar 7 below and at the end of the lateral band. This is a diagnostic feature of all members of the A.-caetei-complex, not just A. caetei & its closest relatives.

And Mike what about this that you mentioned in previous post "A. cf. caetei Marapanim - Rio Marapanim"
is it a new one without A number?

It is a form that apparently has never entered the hobby. Thus there is no A-number. The only photo of this fish is a small thumbnail picture in the Ready paper.

I can think of a few dozen more questions, but this will be a stating point at least.

Regards / Chris

Keep asking. It helps me as much as everyone else on the forum!