Apistogramma Abacaxis Blackwateer Tank

[Bæn]

I know I have posted previously, but i have come back with a more specific plan. I am in the process of building a planted blackwater apisto tank for a breeding pair of Apistogramma.Abacaxis in a 60x38x38cm aquarium, depending on parameters i may also add some Black Neon's somewhere down the line. I am planning on planting Valisneria Nana in the background, Dwarf Saggitaria in the midground and maybe a tiger lotus somewhere in there as well as Floating plants and some Pothos growing from the top. I am aiming to keep the tank at a PH of 5-6 with 80% rainwater and 20% tap water, I will place breeding caves and botanicals all over the substrate, which will be aquasoil capped with around 3cm of fine sand, i am going to use a Bioscape PRO 'Easy Clean' Canister Filter with Heater 1050lph i dont have a light yet so any suggestions would be appreciated. I am also thinking about building an ADA style stand for my tank but the tank has black silicone edges (see attatched), do you guys think this will still look fine? I am aiming for something like this. Let me know thoughts or any suggested improvements. My main goal is to create a display tank with the apisto's breeding as well. Thanks

 

[Phil_1983]

TBH the picture looks really nice.

For breeding tanks though you might run into problems with the vallisneria. Never got it (or any other val) to grow in super soft water. I tried that last in my sp. abacaxis showtank but did not succeed. There is fine grain sand and a layer of leaves above it (at least partially). The EC is roundabout 30 us/cm in there. Vallisnerias just keep dying after a while. To be honest - a lot of plants just die Maybe the sagitarria will work.

 

[anewbie]

TBH the picture looks really nice.

For breeding tanks though you might run into problems with the vallisneria. Never got it (or any other val) to grow in super soft water. I tried that last in my sp. abacaxis showtank but did not succeed. There is fine grain sand and a layer of leaves above it (at least partially). The EC is roundabout 30 us/cm in there. Vallisnerias just keep dying after a while. To be honest - a lot of plants just die Maybe the sagitarria will work.

Weird - the only vals i had problems with was the curly one but it does grow just the tops get a bit ragged - never tried the thick american type in blackwater and nanna grows too well as shown here:

 

[Phil_1983]

Yeah, it is really weird. I wish they would grow like yours do.

 

[Bæn]

I am thinking, if the low ph required for the abacaxis wont allow plants, would it be beneficial to start with Apisto sp.Alto Tapiche? It would be easier as i could just use tap water that way as well. Considering im no expert at breeding specifically Apisto's maybe it would be better to work towards tougher species?

 

[anewbie]

I am thinking, if the low ph required for the abacaxis wont allow plants, would it be beneficial to start with Apisto sp.Alto Tapiche? It would be easier as i could just use tap water that way as well. Considering im no expert at breeding specifically Apisto's maybe it would be better to work towards tougher species?

You can grow plenty of plants as shown in the above picture with pure ro water. The picture aquariums have no additives beyond a few root tabs; inert substrate and use straight ro water.

Some plants i find esp easy to grow include the hybrid big bear echinodorus; amazon echinodorus; nana val; most buces (but not skeleton); most anubias a few crypts to name a few. crypts are the most iffy as some explicitly require hard-water.

I do recommend a few root tabs now and then - while i don't track their usage closely i would say 2 or 3 per 40 gallons every 6 months or so so.

Here is another aquarium:

You can of course take a different route and use something like frogbit to make things very dark:

Some would argue that this is technically better because of the extreme darkness in the aquarium though most species if' kept don't seem to care and of course the disadvantage is you need that flash-light to see the fishes.

 

[Bæn]

You can grow plenty of plants as shown in the above picture with pure ro water. The picture aquariums have no additives beyond a few root tabs; inert substrate and use straight ro water.

Some plants i find esp easy to grow include the hybrid big bear echinodorus; amazon echinodorus; nana val; most buces (but not skeleton); most anubias a few crypts to name a few. crypts are the most iffy as some explicitly require hard-water.

I do recommend a few root tabs now and then - while i don't track their usage closely i would say 2 or 3 per 40 gallons every 6 months or so so.

So do you think Val, Sag and a Lotus will do fine? With a 80% rain water and 20% tap?

 

[anewbie]

The val should be fine though the specific species might matter; sag ii've never tried and bulb plants lotus should be ok as long as you give it root tabs and provide it ample light.

I'm not a fan of most lillies as i find them rather pest oriented without constant desire to spread.

I should also note it can take 3 to 6 months for things to balance out as the plants adjust.

 

[MacZ]

I am thinking, if the low ph required for the abacaxis wont allow plants

It's not the pH. it's usually the low mineral and nutrient content in soft water. That's simply a byproduct of lowering pH. Get the minerals and especially the KH down, so pH can go down and most Vallisneria species prefer a water hardness that conflicts with a typical softwater setup. There are "strains" like the ones @anewbie has in his tanks, that con do well with soft water, usually those are the result of a spontaneous mutation, nobody has worked on a specific softwater-Vallisneria for the trade, yet.

Problem is overall: Almost all Apistos do better in soft water. Unless you go for the southern species from Paraguay or Argentina or those from the brazilian coast or the Guyana coast, that are not from the wider Amazon (and adjacent) basin, you will have this conundrum over and over again.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
What @MacZ says, I've never had any joy with Vallisneria in soft water, but it does well in our tap water +~17 dGH & 17 dKH), low nutrient.

I am thinking, if the low ph required for the abacaxis wont allow plant,

There are plenty of plants that will grow in very soft, low nutrient water. The problem is that a lot of them won't grow in harder water, so they aren't plants you can often buy, "off the shelf". Personally I use floating plants, Anubias barteri and Bolbitis heudelotii a lot - <"https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/what-is-the-“duckweed-index”-all-about.73647/">.

,would it be beneficial to start with Apisto sp.Alto Tapiche? It would be easier as i could just use tap water that way as well. Considering im no expert at breeding specifically Apisto's maybe it would be better to work towards tougher species?

Fish from harder water tend to be easier to keep. I don't know about A. "Alto Tapiche" specifically.

Cheers Darrel Watts

 

[anewbie]

I'm really confused since i've grown most vals (there are different species) in blackwater without too much issue. This is another aquarium with the common variety:

The ec (guessing) is around 40 and the ph is below 6 - it is on the cooler side of my dwarf cichild aquariums at 76:

Hum - one sec rather then guessing let me measure the ec:
oh well my guess was off it is only ec 29:

 

[Mike Wise]

The upper Rio Tapiche is also a blackwater river. TomC collected Alto Tapiche there and measured the following values: pH: 4.62 Conductivity: 7 microSiemens/cm Temperature: 26.2 °C. Of course this probably isn't the actual conditions one needs to breed the species, but it does need softer and acidic water values. If you seriously want to consider this species I suggest that you read Tom's excellent article: https://www.tomc.no/page.aspx?PageId=68.

 

[Bæn]

The upper Rio Tapiche is also a blackwater river. TomC collected Alto Tapiche there and measured the following values: pH: 4.62 Conductivity: 7 microSiemens/cm Temperature: 26.2 °C. Of course this probably isn't the actual conditions one needs to breed the species, but it does need softer and acidic water values. If you seriously want to consider this species I suggest that you read Tom's excellent article: https://www.tomc.no/page.aspx?PageId=68.

Will definitely give it a read, for the pH values im mainly going off of the breeders parameters where he keeps the Abacaxis in a pH 5.5-6.5 and the Alto tapiche in 6-7