Apisto something or other? help please

[Konigwolf]

Apisto something or other? help please - REVISITED, possible Eunotus? or similar

Hi, I got three of these little guys from a local fish shop (1 male/2female I hope) . All they knew is that are apistos, they didnt know anymore. They are still young and difficult to sex but any help in the breed of apisto would help lots thanks in advance

here;s some better (ie larger images)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/katchan13/IMG_0009a.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/katchan13/IMG_0005a.jpg

edit-this collage shows what color and marking there is better

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/katchan13/ResizeWizard-1.jpg


Konigwolf

 

[Mike Wise]

They are a resticulosa-complex species. Based on the available photos I cannot say which species it is.

 

[Konigwolf]

Well I just got in over my fool head :biggrin: . I googled resticulosa-complex species and ended up confused, I found one of your papers Mike on Phylogeny, and a few others and while these named areas found and gave some description I didnt find and actually naming a species within the resticulosa complex. If you or anyone else could name me some I can start looking for some species specific images and info.

Konigwolf

PS I'm in australia and the price for a. cacatuoide starts around $25 each or $35 a pair (well thats the best I've seen so far). The place I got these guys from is selling them at $6.95 ea does anyone think it would be worth getting some more (I have the room) at this price - basically do these guys usually go for less or more than cacatoide's.

 

[Mike Wise]

I didnt find and actually naming a species within the resticulosa complex. If you or anyone else could name me some I can start looking for some species specific images and info.

I periodically make a list of species within each species-group/complex in The Apisto-gram, published by the Apistogramma Study Group. It appears that you rely entirely too much on the internet for information. May I suggest - especially if you are getting into dwarf cichlids - that you buy a copy of Römer's Atlas? Better yet, if you understand German, add a copy of Koslowski's Die Buntbarsche Amerikas, Band 2: Apistogramma & Co. These 2 books will answer virtually all of your questions.

 

[Konigwolf]

Unfourtunatly with 3 young kids and full time uni I am a long way from being able to afford $130 AUD (cheapest I found the atlas was $60US 2nd hand, plus postage) anytime soon for a non-textbook so I'm left with primarily the internet (which is why I post at places like here) followed by what I can find at the library.

Konigwolf

 

[Mike Wise]

OK, but I hate to confuse you more. Right now there are 4 species in the resticulosa-complex: A. taeniata, A. pleurotaenia, A. resticulosa, & A. sp. Cheekspots/Wangenflecken. Your fish is not A. pleurotaenia. Your fish have 3 anal spines A. pleurotaenia has 4. That leaves A. sp. Wangenflecken, A. taeniata & A. resticulosa.

Now for the confusing part. Collections of fish belonging to the resticulosa-complex show at least 2 forms of A. taeniata that include 6 - 10 distinct populations. A. resticulosa has at least 5 different distinct populations. If looked at as a whole, these forms show a series of populations that merge into one another. So we are left with a problem. Do the A. taeniata/resticulosa populations represent 12 or more species or one single, but morphologically variable, species? Either way something strange is going on. I feel that we are dealing with a 'super-species' that has recently entered new biotopes & is in the process of rapidly speciating. I believe something similar is happening to A. agassizii.

 

[Konigwolf]

Sorry i was the pain but thanks for the help, I can start looking at species specific information instead of guessing, thanks again.

Konigwolf

 

[mervin]

.

Now for the confusing part. Collections of fish belonging to the resticulosa-complex show at least 2 forms of A. taeniata that include 6 - 10 distinct populations. A. resticulosa has at least 5 different distinct populations. If looked at as a whole, these forms show a series of populations that merge into one another. So we are left with a problem. Do the A. taeniata/resticulosa populations represent 12 or more species or one single, but morphologically variable, species? Either way something strange is going on. I feel that we are dealing with a 'super-species' that has recently entered new biotopes & is in the process of rapidly speciating. I believe something similar is happening to A. agassizii.

hahahaha !!!
me seeing stars after reading that !

no offence Mike.

 

[Mike Wise]

Mervin,

Let me add some stars ! Geological and human ethnological evidence point to these biotopes appearing <4,000 years ago. This speciation seems to have all occurred within historic times!

 

[Konigwolf]

Well 2 months down the track and juvies colouring up as they it seems they maybe something else, and I must say not at all unattractive.

I have what I believe to be 3 females and 1 male, sorry cant take any pics at the moment (the missus is it keeping VERY busy with our new 6 week old, and I shouldn't be using it for my silly fish LOL)

but from the pics before the females are marked (striped) basically the same but get colouring up yellow like a cacatuoides female. Nice yellow with black/grey striping.

the male however is very slender and is devolping green anal and caudal fins and a green sheen down his body much like the A.eunotus in this image

Are these fish eunotus or similar then? eunotus is the only apisto I have been able to find with green body/scale colouring as shown in the image, there may be others

I also was able to get back to the shop where I got them and they said there were supposed to be juruensis.

Andrew

Edit in- I guess this has shown me the difficulty of even trying to guess an unknown juvies exact type.