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Apisto breeding tanks and sizes

Johny

New Member
Messages
4
Hello to all, i am new here and also new at apisto breeding.i am planning to breed apistogramma agassizii or cacutoides.i have done extensive research and my only problems are tank space and very hard water.So firstly,i know 20 Gal is better but can i breed my apisto pair in a 10GAL if i can grow the fry in another tank?(how big should my fry grow out tank be?) and if yes what should i keep in mind that may be troublesome? secondly,what worries me is my GH (my Kh is 8) which is high at the moment.GH is 14 but i am pretty sure that's because i keep topping off water(which is already hard) the last weeks instead of doing water changes(cause im medicating) and all the mineral build up goes back in the water and adds up.So i dont think my GH will be 14 but it is high anyhow.How much i need to drop my GH for my apistos to breed and eggs to hatch? from what i know, hard water can mees with eggs hatching.is there some merch that i can use to make my water softer? I need your Apistoexperience .Thank you!
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,207
Location
Germany
very hard water
GH 14 and KH 8: Go for A. cacatuoides. Alternatively A. macmasteri or A. trifasciata. But A. agassizii are pretty much out at these readings. You might want to address the points below first, before even thinking about this.

In about 40 liters (10 gallons) you can breed Apistogramma. Theoretically.

Firstly, if the tank is insufficiently structured it is possible the male chases the female to death if she isn't ready to breed. And vice versa she may chase him into a corner when the eggs are laid. So you have to have a second tank running to move one or the other of the two if necessary. At any given time. This is very important.
Justto minimize stress completely it's probably better to not even try in that tank size if you only have the space for one tank.

Secondly, a growout tank should have 80 liters or more if you want the fry to grow to sale size without issues.

Thirdly: Do you have a guaranteed buyer? Especially with such superfluous and common species as A. cacatuoides and the others named above it might easily happen that you flood your local market with fish and then demand drops. In case you want to give them to a LFS expect them to give you store credit and nothing else. If you get money be prepared for very low prices per fish or even bulk prices.

is there some merch that i can use to make my water softer?
Get an RO unit or buy bulk RO/distilled water to dilute your tapwater. Period. Every other technique is not advisable for beginners.
 

Johny

New Member
Messages
4
GH 14 and KH 8: Go for A. cacatuoides. Alternatively A. macmasteri or A. trifasciata. But A. agassizii are pretty much out at these readings. You might want to address the points below first, before even thinking about this.

In about 40 liters (10 gallons) you can breed Apistogramma. Theoretically.

Firstly, if the tank is insufficiently structured it is possible the male chases the female to death if she isn't ready to breed. And vice versa she may chase him into a corner when the eggs are laid. So you have to have a second tank running to move one or the other of the two if necessary. At any given time. This is very important.
Justto minimize stress completely it's probably better to not even try in that tank size if you only have the space for one tank.

Secondly, a growout tank should have 80 liters or more if you want the fry to grow to sale size without issues.

Thirdly: Do you have a guaranteed buyer? Especially with such superfluous and common species as A. cacatuoides and the others named above it might easily happen that you flood your local market with fish and then demand drops. In case you want to give them to a LFS expect them to give you store credit and nothing else. If you get money be prepared for very low prices per fish or even bulk prices.


Get an RO unit or buy bulk RO/distilled water to dilute your tapwater. Period. Every other technique is not advisable for beginners.
the tank will be structured specifically for apistogrammas.i have done extensive research on that part.I will have a second tank ready to go if needed.May that be for reasons of aggression between the pair or for taking out the male for the fry survival. I'm actually almost done building a reinforced metal rack with 87l x 40w x 203,5h. This gives me 2 shelfs of 81lx40wx61.5h and one more at the bottom which i intend to use as a cabinet(only the bottom of this rack will be closed and probably used as a cabinet) to keep my fishkeeping things and/or filter etc but i can use half or all of it if needed for breeding.plus a little space on top of 81l x17w x 25/30h .with this in mind, how can i mix and play with my surface area to optimize my breeding?i was planning to keep some surface area for other projects if possible. As for selling i have already checked possible sources as LFS, locals etc and there is demand.But one reason i wanted to keep some surface free is to breed other fish or shrimp. How and what species would you try, wih a rack like mine,for breeding?
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,207
Location
Germany
So in short: You would have enough space for a proper breeding project.
How and what species would you try, wih a rack like mine,for breeding?
First of all: I would use such a rack for only ONE species. I have no special preferences as I bred fish for a decade when I was much younger and quit it a long time ago, then went into a hiatus from fishkeeping and swore to myself to not breed anymore after I got back into it. Because I neither have time, space, money or energy to do more than a display tank in my room. Back in the day I had a few thousand liters in a whole fishroom with my father. Nowerdays I'm content with a 100l tank and no breeding stress.

If I was pressed to give any species names I would breed... A. ortegai, A. mendezi, A. panduro... Right now I keep Dicrossus, which I prefer over Apistogramma in some regards. Alternatively I'd probably also go for Taeniacara. In any case fish, that are not easy to obtain and not tankbred strains.

Do you have the full 80x40cm for each shelf? Or are the corners cut out for the vertical supports? That's important due to usual standard tank sizes. If not you can only fit a 60x30cm (or if you're lucky and find one 60x35) on one of the shelfs.
Otherwise I would probably put two 35x35 cubes on the other shelf. Gives you 3 tanks to rotate, either to separate the breeding adults or to choose one for growout.
 

Johny

New Member
Messages
4
So in short: You would have enough space for a proper breeding project.

First of all: I would use such a rack for only ONE species. I have no special preferences as I bred fish for a decade when I was much younger and quit it a long time ago, then went into a hiatus from fishkeeping and swore to myself to not breed anymore after I got back into it. Because I neither have time, space, money or energy to do more than a display tank in my room. Back in the day I had a few thousand liters in a whole fishroom with my father. Nowerdays I'm content with a 100l tank and no breeding stress.

If I was pressed to give any species names I would breed... A. ortegai, A. mendezi, A. panduro... Right now I keep Dicrossus, which I prefer over Apistogramma in some regards. Alternatively I'd probably also go for Taeniacara. In any case fish, that are not easy to obtain and not tankbred strains.

Do you have the full 80x40cm for each shelf? Or are the corners cut out for the vertical supports? That's important due to usual standard tank sizes. If not you can only fit a 60x30cm (or if you're lucky and find one 60x35) on one of the shelfs.
Otherwise I would probably put two 35x35 cubes on the other shelf. Gives you 3 tanks to rotate, either to separate the breeding adults or to choose one for growout.
my rack is 87x40 and i used 3x3cm for support,2mm thick.so that leaves me with 81x40 clean surface. i can use the 2 big shelves just for apisto breeding, one species yes.

would you go for a 20gal for the pair to breed and a 10gal for keeping the male if/when needed and the 33 gal for fry to grow OR keep 2 42litre tanks where i can home 1 female in each one, for breeding and switching the male between them until they get fry,at which point ill move the male alone in a 30lt tank until everyone has rested,given a break, re-conditioned and repeat.The fry still has the 33gal grow out tank .

Can i even use straight the 33 gal for breeding and use the smaller tanks for grow out? how would you optimize the use of the 2 shelfs

lastly,from what i understood A.Cacatuoides can breed in harder water correct?
 

MacZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,207
Location
Germany
my rack is 87x40 and i used 3x3cm for support,2mm thick.so that leaves me with 81x40 clean surface. i can use the 2 big shelves just for apisto breeding, one species yes.

would you go for a 20gal for the pair to breed and a 10gal for keeping the male if/when needed and the 33 gal for fry to grow OR keep 2 42litre tanks where i can home 1 female in each one, for breeding and switching the male between them until they get fry,at which point ill move the male alone in a 30lt tank until everyone has rested,given a break, re-conditioned and repeat.The fry still has the 33gal grow out tank .

Can i even use straight the 33 gal for breeding and use the smaller tanks for grow out? how would you optimize the use of the 2 shelfs
Ah, with the repeated 81 in the dimensions I assumed the 87 was a typo.

Honestly, all dimensions are at your discretion, just keep in mind these:
1. Do not use tanks smaller than 60 liters for separate females and move the male. Catching a fish in a roughly 40 liter tank size is absolute stress and not a good idea in the first place. Also the number of waterchanges will be a pain in the behind the smaller these tanks are.
2. The growout should be the largest tank.
3. Remember to keep one tank free at all times for separations.

Otherwise I'm bewildered about your focus on optimizing everything. YOU will have to work with your setup. Do what is most practical to you. I can only tell you what tank sizes are ok for the fish. Otherwise what may be practical to me might be useless to you.
And just to be clear: You will not make a lot of profit from this, I rather expect you to go out with a minus with your plan.

lastly,from what i understood A.Cacatuoides can breed in harder water correct?
A. cacatuoides, A. macmasteri, A. trifasciata are theoretically possible in your parameters.
 

anewbie

Active Member
Messages
511
In a 10 gallon i would try borelli which i believe can also handle the harder water.... borelli have a decent personality; are much smaller than cockatoo or similar and generally less aggressive when not breeding (which is helpful in a small tank).
 

Johny

New Member
Messages
4
Thanks again,if you want i will update you when everything is set and going (probably 2 months +)
 

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