Another apisto aggression question

[Justmeingardner]

Hi all,
New to the forums and to apistos. Have recently acquired 4 wild caught Apistogramma Eunotus. They are in a 20L with 4 Flameback bleeding heart tetras (originally 6, lost 2 to water change not knowing water company had heavily increased chloramine use). All fish are doing well, but I have a couple questions I thought some of the more experienced folks on here could weigh in on.
Dominant male (5 cm) constantly harasses other 3 (I believe, another male, 3.5 cm, and possibly 3 females at 2.5 cm). There has been no physical damage so far. The larger male has very little color, while the smaller male is starting to show some nice color, despite the harassment.
Question is: Is it worth tearing tank apart to catch larger male and give him his OWN space (for now, a 30L with nobody else in it)? Breeding is not my primary goal, but if it happens and some fry make it, so be it. Would like to see less aggression in tank, and give the smaller apistos a chance to grow, as well as seeing if the smaller male continues to develop nicely. And maybe smaller male will be more sociable with other two, or will he likely assume a dominant/aggressive role? Any thoughts? When do others tend to separate fish? Thanks, Mark

 

[ErtyJr]

Hi all,
New to the forums and to apistos. Have recently acquired 4 wild caught Apistogramma Eunotus. They are in a 20L with 4 Flameback bleeding heart tetras (originally 6, lost 2 to water change not knowing water company had heavily increased chloramine use). All fish are doing well, but I have a couple questions I thought some of the more experienced folks on here could weigh in on.
Dominant male (5 cm) constantly harasses other 3 (I believe, another male, 3.5 cm, and possibly 3 females at 2.5 cm). There has been no physical damage so far. The larger male has very little color, while the smaller male is starting to show some nice color, despite the harassment.
Question is: Is it worth tearing tank apart to catch larger male and give him his OWN space (for now, a 30L with nobody else in it)? Breeding is not my primary goal, but if it happens and some fry make it, so be it. Would like to see less aggression in tank, and give the smaller apistos a chance to grow, as well as seeing if the smaller male continues to develop nicely. And maybe smaller male will be more sociable with other two, or will he likely assume a dominant/aggressive role? Any thoughts? When do others tend to separate fish? Thanks, Mark

I'm going to assume 20L stands for gallons and not liters. It's very confusing since you use cm for measurement but gallons for volume.

At any rate, a 20 gallon long tank in my opinion is not near enough for a tank with 2 males, especially if the goal is to breed. All my pairs are kept in a 20 long and I sometimes experience high aggression between just the male and female only in these tanks.

I do not have experience with A. eunotus, but I do have a pair of A. sp. winklefleck currently breeding. They are fairly closely related. This species so far has had the highest aggression of all my pairs. The male ripped up the females fins when she was not ready to spawn, and the female keeps him in a small corner of the tank now that she has fry.

My suggestion would be you should seriously consider setting up more tanks and getting your males separated.

However if you are saying your tank is 20 liters, I don't feel that tank is large enough for even 1 apisto.

 

[Justmeingardner]

Thank you Erty. Yes, the tank is 20 gallon long (sorry if I confused, was under impression L=long, l=liters). I didn't plan on having two males, (I asked for a 1M, 2F trio) supplier sent an extra fish ...the big male that is causing the problems. The other 3 fish are much closer in size. I agree that a 20L is too small for 2 males, just wishful thinking that I won't have to tear tank apart trying to catch him. And I mentioned I already have a 30L set up that he will likely go into (problem there is it's earmarked for some other fish, and I don't want him causing problems there either), although the idea of setting up more tanks would be great if I had the space. Sigh...looks like I may be going "fishing" soon...lol.

 

[ErtyJr]

Thank you Erty. Yes, the tank is 20 gallon long (sorry if I confused, was under impression L=long, l=liters). I didn't plan on having two males, (I asked for a 1M, 2F trio) supplier sent an extra fish ...the big male that is causing the problems. The other 3 fish are much closer in size. I agree that a 20L is too small for 2 males, just wishful thinking that I won't have to tear tank apart trying to catch him. And I mentioned I already have a 30L set up that he will likely go into (problem there is it's earmarked for some other fish, and I don't want him causing problems there either), although the idea of setting up more tanks would be great if I had the space. Sigh...looks like I may be going "fishing" soon...lol.

Well as long as the other fish going in the 30 aren't dwarf cichlids, he should be fine! Problem is if your like me every tank always had dwarf cichlids lol.

 

[Justmeingardner]

lol...you must have read my mind...maybe I can squeeze in a 10G for him, as yes, the 30L will have other dwarfs (soon, I hope). And the deed is done. He is hiding somewhere in the 30L now, tore the 20L apart (thank God it's mostly plastic plants, which I thinned out considerably...it was truly a jungle). Everybody out and playing nice, even my skittish bleeding hearts seem to be out more. Maybe more swimming space? Or the tension in the tank has evaporated...lol. Gotta love this hobby! Now...where to put that 10?

 

[ErtyJr]

lol...you must have read my mind...maybe I can squeeze in a 10G for him, as yes, the 30L will have other dwarfs (soon, I hope). And the deed is done. He is hiding somewhere in the 30L now, tore the 20L apart (thank God it's mostly plastic plants, which I thinned out considerably...it was truly a jungle). Everybody out and playing nice, even my skittish bleeding hearts seem to be out more. Maybe more swimming space? Or the tension in the tank has evaporated...lol. Gotta love this hobby! Now...where to put that 10?

When I ran out of room tanks started to go on the bureau in the bedroom =D

 

[Justmeingardner]

Well, Erty...my smaller male is coloring up nicely and seems I DO have 1 female. I think she likes the larger male, and he MOSTLY tolerates her...lol. She displayed a horizontal stripe for first time today (she had been wearing short vertical bars). She isn't colored up, but follows him around a bit. NOW, he is the aggressor toward the other smaller male...Sigh...running out of room for males. My hoped for 1M, 2F trio has turned out to be 3M, 1F. What COULD have worked in 1 tank will now take 3,,,,grrrrrrrr, Next time, I'll buy a proven pair...lol.

 

[ErtyJr]

Well, Erty...my smaller male is coloring up nicely and seems I DO have 1 female. I think she likes the larger male, and he MOSTLY tolerates her...lol. She displayed a horizontal stripe for first time today (she had been wearing short vertical bars). She isn't colored up, but follows him around a bit. NOW, he is the aggressor toward the other smaller male...Sigh...running out of room for males. My hoped for 1M, 2F trio has turned out to be 3M, 1F. What COULD have worked in 1 tank will now take 3,,,,grrrrrrrr, Next time, I'll buy a proven pair...lol.

Haha, I'm sorry to hear it, but atleast it makes for a good story lol. Happens to the best of us at times