A.Viejita & A.Nijsseni In The Same Tank.

[Andrew C]

Hello All
I have just started keeping Apistogrammas and have some questions for you.

I currently have one M & F - A.Viejita in a 33G tank with 5 corys and four neons.
I also have one M & F - A.Nijsseni in a 22G tank with 5 corys.

I hope to breed them and am thinking of putting the two sets of Apistogrammas in the 35G tank, and putting the other fish in the 22G tank.

Is the 33G tank big enough to do this (its size is: L - 100cm, W - 40cm, H - 50cm)?
Will the different Apistogrammas tolerate each other in the same tank ?
Will they be able to breed in this tank ?
Will the fry survive in this tank ?

I also have two Cacatuiodes in a 12G by themselves (got them two weeks ago), but all they seem do is display and chase each other, and it is not always the same fish that starts it, it changes each week.
The two are pretty simular looking to each other, apart from one being a bit bigger than the other.
They both have minimal red markings in there dorsal and anal fins, and the two of them are taking on a yellowly colour now.
They were sold as a pair from a lfs, and were the only cacatuoides in the tank.

Do some pairings not work out ?
As i have read you are better getting a few young ones and letting them pair off naturally, but i do not have the room to do this.

Thanks for any help,
Andrew.

 

[mordor]

1) IMHO 4 apistos in 33G should not be a problem unless you got really mean males. If you provide enough hidding places for each one they should be ok. I mean 4 apistos + 4-6 hidding places which could be small flower pots, part ot coconut shells or even some plastic structures from store.

2) If your cacs are same size it's likely they are same sex. If you got male sooner or later it will start growing faster than female. He will start changing color, his fins will get longer. Female should look the same untile she gets ready to bread, then she turns yellow with vivid black marking.

 

[Andrew C]

Thanks Mordor
I will put plenty of hiding places in the 33G tank, hopefully there won't be too much aggression between the males.
If one of the pairs breed, will the other pair leave the fry alone ?

Reguarding the cacatuoides, i have been wondering if i had two of the same sex.
It looking more and more like i have, although i am not sure which sex they are yet, possibly males.
Will one cacatuoide be alright in the 22G with corys and neons when i find a mate for the other ?

Andrew.

 

[mordor]

I have never had two different species breed at the same time in one tank so it's hard to say if fry can survive. It also depends on many other factors, location of the spawning site, what kind of fish you got in tank besides apistos.

Recently I cacatuoides male spawned with two females at the same time in community tank. First female selected large cave for laying eggs and after 3-4 days she is not guarding. I guess eggs were eaten by plecos. Another female is sitting under small piece of coconut shell, too small even for male to enter. Plecos and corys have no access to it so I guess there is a chance for fry. I do not know if she wil be able to defend her children in this tank. For all 3 parents it's first spawn so I guess they have to learn defending strategies. I guess when next few spawn would be unssuccesull I will need separate tanks for this trio.

As far your two cacs are concerned I would not worry too much about them. Give them lots of hidding places or plants and both will survive. Wait until they start coloring and try to get females for them

 

[Andrew C]

Hello Morder
I have sorted out the tank now.
Put in six small clay plant pots for caves and there is plenty of plants & wood in the apistogramma tank for hiding places.

The male Viejita and female Nijsseni had a right go at each other when i introduced the fish, the female Nijsseni ended up chasing the male Viejita about a lot, i will need to keep an eye on them two.

Sorry if i confused you.
I am keeping only Apistogrammas in the 33G: m&f - Viejita and m&f -Nijsseni, no other fish.
And what i mean reguarding fry surviving is if only one of pairs spawned.
Say, if (only) the Viejta spawned and the fry hatched and became free swimming, would the fry be in any danger from the Nijsseni (eating them) ?

Hopefully it will not take too long to find a partner for the cacutoides.

Thanks again,
Andrew.

 

[mordor]

Yes if one pair spawns other pair might be a danger for fry.

I would not worry about that until they spawn first time if you notice that parents cannot defend their fry you should make some changes before next time. I guess real danger are mostly from tankmates that are active during night when parents have limited chance to defend fry. During day parents may even kill intruder if it is too stupid to wonder too close.

 

[Neil]

Andrew C,

WELCOME TO THE FORUMI

I currently have one M & F - A.Viejita in a 33G tank with 5 corys and four neons.
I also have one M & F - A.Nijsseni in a 22G tank with 5 corys.

I would keep your set-up the way it is now and put the cacatuoides in the 33g with the viejita. Nijsenni can tend to be pretty tough on tankmates when courting time comes along. Heck, they can be pretty tough on tankmates with no added motivation! :twisted:
Viejita, like most apistos, are a little more tolerant than fish like nijsenni of conspecifics. It also helps to have a larger tank for the less aggressive Dwarfs, because nijsenni wouldn't care about the difference between a 22 and a 33g. But viejita might.

And what i mean reguarding fry surviving is if only one of pairs spawned.

Anytime that you have other fish in the breeding tank, there is a danger to the other fish and the fry. Apistos eat fry as a fairly large part of their diet in the wild and this instinctual behavior is likely to manifest in the aquarium. Apistos are also good parents, for the most part, and will vigorously defend their fry from preditors (especially other apistos) or they may eat them themselves if they cannot successfully do this to conserve the energy for a future spawn under possible (more) favorable cicumstances.
The best way to breed apists, and get viable fry from them, is to have only the critical parties (the pair) in the tank. All other occupants are wild cards and can make for some interesting observation by the aquarist, but inevitably reduce the chances for success. Good luck with whatever you decide. Many of us have tried it all different ways.
Neil

 

[Andrew C]

Thanks for the welcome Neil.

I was thinking about giving each pair of apistos some time in the 12G for breeding.
Watching their behaviour, my cacatuoides seem to be the most aggressive Apistos i have, as they are constantly pecking and chasing each other, although the dominant one changes each week ?, but possibly i have two of the same sex, i will need to get a book to properly identify them.

I found out why the female Nijsseni has been and still is so aggressive, SHE HAS LAID EGGS , or is certainly acting like she has !

I only got them last Sunday and changed the tanks about on Wednesday. When i moved the Nijssenis into the 33G (which was the Viejtas home) the female Nijsseni went straight for the male Viejta and a fight broke out(nearly had me moving them back), but it eventually broke up and it quietend down, so i left it to see what devolped.
Then on Thur, i noticed around the female Nijssenis anus was swollen and was told that this is her egg tube, since then she has been in and out from a piece of wood in the middle of the tank (i can see where she goes to, just can't see inside if there are eggs).
She chases anything away from the wood, infact gives the other Apistos a good deal of hassle.
I thought it was too soon for them to breed and did not notice the two Nijssenis getting it together, unless it was during Wed night, as since Thur the male has been swimming with the other Apistos and keeping clear of the female (infact the male is quite placid compared to the female).
The eggs could possibly be unfertilized, but it is amazing watching the female patrol the area and sort out any fish that goes near the wood.

I do currently have baby brine shrimp on the go for some Peppered Cory fry i am raising, but any advice is appreciated, espicially if it is a sucsessful spawn.

Andrew.

 

[Andrew C]

I have moved the two Viejitas into the 22G to give them a break and might also move the male Nijsseni, as the female is giving him a hard time.

If the spawn is successful, when would the fry appear out from the wood and when should i start feeding baby brine shrimp ?

Andrew.

 

[Neil]

7 to 8 days after they layed the eggs. But feeding should be immediate after they are free-swimming to give them the best start, so you can shoot a little BBS in there on the day 6 or 7. Sometimes, it is not possible to see them until they have been free-swimming for several days because the parents keep them under wraps too well.
Neil

 

[Andrew C]

Sorry Neil
I got the two sets of apistos mixed up when writing them, it was the Viejita that i thought had laid eggs (the female is about 2" long & the male is about 3.5" long) .
The female Viejita was guarding the area less and less and as algae was starting to take over the tank, last night, i cleaned the glass & plant leaves and had a good search of the tank, but found nothing.
Maybe she laid eggs and ate them, as the way she was going on there must have been something in the tank.

After much research, i have realised that the two cacatuoides i have are male, even though they were sold as a pair.
I moved them into the Cory tank as there is no chance of them breeding, which lets the Nijssenis have a tank to themselves and hopefully they will breed.



Sorry again for the mix up,
Andrew.