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A. paulmuelleri habitat

dw1305

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Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
I'm setting up a biotope aquarium for the A. paulmuelleri and looked at a lot of pictures and liked to know what species of (aquatic) plants are on the pictures below.
(Look at picture 4 for the emerse plant and picture 5&6 for the submerse plant) http://apisto.sites.no/fish.aspx?fishIndexID=2256&gruppeID=1
The emergent plant is a grass, something like Paspalum repens, have a look at <"http://www.amazonian-fish.co.uk/indexc6b1.html">. The plant in picture 6 (and possibly picture 5.) is algal, it is a Green Algae (Chlorophyta), and something like Ulva intestinalis, but a name would be more difficult. You can see it in picture 3 (the pale green areas).

cheers Darrel
 

Mike Wise

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Almost no truly aquatic higher plants exist in this species' biotope which is composed mainly of leaf litter and submerged terrestrial shoreline vegetation. Not really a pretty place by show tank standards.
 

PhilipAG

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5 Year Member
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49
Thanks Darrel,

I'll look for some P. repens, because like you say it has quite some similarities when looking at its shape.
But since it some sort of grass-species, I really wouldn't know where to find someone who has some.
And I already thought it was a green algae-species but wasn't sure.


Mike, looking at the pictures on the internet and Uwe Römer books (CA 1&2) it indeed doesn't look like a place with much plants etc.
I never visited a place in South-America,(Nonetheless, I'd really like to go there some day to check the deforestation and adaptations of the fish for my biology studies) but if the raining season is going on, I would think there are some places where roots of a tree are submersed.
Since the little streams where A. paulmuelleri lives are found in the forest there are a lot of trees nearby the little streams.
So would it be ok to add a few pieces of wood?
I als use a bit of small branches that recreate fallen branches or newly-formed roots.
And if I add some P. repens, wouls that be ok to form an idea of the biotope these fish live in during the annual flood?
 

skoram

Active Member
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135
Gorgeous tank. I agree that apistos should be very happy in that. Based on comments from many experts I've found that, if it has any aquatic plants at all (aside from floaters), it's probably not a "true" biotope. That said, aquatic plants do provide many benefits to a tank even if they are not actually found in the real habitat. I also think there is strong merit in "pseudo" biotope tanks or "themed" tanks, but that is just my 2 cents.
 

skoram

Active Member
Messages
135
Accurate biotope? Not really. As an apisto habitat and show tank, it excellent. BTW it's still the dry season in Peru - and in addition a very dry year.

Hi Mike

Just to satisfy my own curiosity and learn more about biotopes, could you tell us why this is not really accurate? I know that blackwater biotopes generally do not contain any submerged vegetation but wouldn't it be acceptable for tanks that are meant to represent flooded areas during the rainy season?
 

PhilipAG

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5 Year Member
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49
The aquarium hasn't got really black water, but it is due to the poor quality of my phone-camera that is looks like a black water environment.
In reality the water has got a little brown tint as described in some articles that the water is not completly "colourless" but has a slight touch of brown.

Normally I don't use plants in biotope tanks, but how could I otherwise keep some N. mortenthaleri in an aquarium less than 3m in length? This one is one meter in length. Because otherwise I would only have leaf litter on the bottom of the tank.
As a combination of N. mortenthaleri and A. paulmuelleri in a tank with only leaf-litter that wouldn't seem ideal, I think.



Mike, could you show me some pictures of real biotope-aquaria? Or aquaria that represent the biotope in the best way.


Darrel, no but the one you show would be a great plant, as it can live submerse. Mine is Polygonum persicaria and lives with its roots in aquatic environments, but lives mostly emersed. So I would have to replace them once in a while.


Skoram, indeed but this is not an aquatic plant, it is an emersed plant who is in a submerse environment thanks to flood. But that is probably an assumption that is wrong, as Mike said.
I'd really like to go for a biotope-tank, if possible, so this is only my first creation.
And as I said previously in this post, this isn't meant to be a black water-environment, but due to the bad quality of my phone's camera it looks like it is.


Thanks already for the great help, this makes everything more clear for someone who hasn't visited these areas.
 

themountain

Active Member
5 Year Member
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172
Location
Mallorca/Spain
underwater-underwater-stream131.html
well..the only green things you will find in black water is algea :D and a lot in some places...more to see here: http://travel.mongabay.com/pix/peru/underwater-underwater-stream020.html

underwater-stream020.JPG
 
Last edited:

dw1305

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5 Year Member
Messages
2,776
Location
Wiltshire UK
Hi all,
Darrel, no but the one you show would be a great plant, as it can live submerse. Mine is Polygonum persicaria and lives with its roots in aquatic environments, but lives mostly emersed. So I would have to replace them once in a while.
Polygonum was my next guess for the genus. Murdannia is from SE Asia, so it still wouldn't be biotope correct.

I'm familiar with Persicaria maculosa (Polygonum persicaria), as a weed of wet places in the UK. Can you obtain Persicaria amphibia? It would probably convert to the amphibious form eventually, but it shouldn't need replacing.

I assume Mike is out of reach of the WWW again, but you can see images from Mike's (and Microman etc) visits to Peru with TomC on his web pages: <"Welcome to Apisto sites: Articles">.

As well as the link <"themountain"> posted, there is the information from Pisces Conservation <"Amazonian Fish and their Habitats">, and the videos from Ivan Mikolji (below):


cheers Darrel
 

skoram

Active Member
Messages
135
Skoram, indeed but this is not an aquatic plant, it is an emersed plant who is in a submerse environment thanks to flood. But that is probably an assumption that is wrong, as Mike said.
I'd really like to go for a biotope-tank, if possible, so this is only my first creation.
And as I said previously in this post, this isn't meant to be a black water-environment, but due to the bad quality of my phone's camera it looks like it is.

Yes, I tried but failed to make the distinction in my second post that, although there should be no "aquatic" plants in a blackwater biotope, "submerged" plants could be valid if the biotope was meant to represent a flooded area. You also mentioned that this was your intent in your second post. I don't know whether the exact species is correct but I think you definitely succeeded in creating an aquascape that resembles the area near a flooded stream. ;)
 

PhilipAG

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
49
Darrel, I can look around and maybe I'll find the Persicaria amphibia somewhere.
I've seen these videos yet a lot of times, since they appear everytime when I log in to my youtube-account.

But actually I'm looking for footage of aquaria that are decorated in a such way they are biotope correct for a Apistogramma paulmuelleri and Nannostomus mortenthaleri biotope. (Rio pucacuro for example?)



Skoram, thanks! :)
 

PhilipAG

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
49
What should I do to make it more look like a real biotope tank for these fish.

Keeping in mind that some elements (e.g. plant species from back there) are unable to come by.
 

Mike Wise

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Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
I don't know of anyplace where the true (holotype) A. paulmuelleri is synpatrick with N. mortentalleri - N. marginatus, yes, but not N. mortentalleri. I could be wrong, of course.
 

PhilipAG

Member
5 Year Member
Messages
49
That's right. But since I couldn't get any A. cf. sp. Masken I looked for the A. paulmuelleri to have a similar species.
 

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