A. Hongsloi dilemma

[Jay973]

Well I keep a 180g heavily planted tank and I had two surviving Apistos from my move. Only one member survived of the two pair A. hongsloi (M) and A. viejita (F). (Or so I thought the A. viejita was female since it was sold as a pair.)

I finally got a hongsloi form II female an I quickly realized the viejta (or mcmasteri) is actually a male.

ID viejta or mcmasteri


The two were going at it pretty hard unfortunately for the hongsloi (M) the one above is the dominant one although he tries to put up a good fight.


My dilemma has been trying to catch the viejita avoiding destroying the planted tank. After so many failed attempts I finally just put two big nets in the tank and chased him with a stick and he mistakenly swamp right into the net for shelter quick and easy.

Here's the planted tank 6'x2'x2'


So now the pair of hongsloi going at it the female locked on to the males tail and didn't let go he just stayed there. She's a bright yellow with kind of an orange highlight. I hope that means she's receptive because she was very dark the first two weeks in the tank. The other unfortunate thing is this is a community tank.

 

[Mike Wise]

It's hard to separate A. viejita from A. macmasteri based on only 1 photo. Very few dark markings, especially the caudal spot, are visible in this photo. Nevertheless, based on the body depth/height and fin height, my guess is that it is A. macmasteri. Many will claim it's A. viejita because of the dark abdominal blotch on the male in full aggression display, but this blotch is characteristic of most macmasteri-complex species - not just A. viejita.

The behavior of the female (biting the male's tail) is rather odd. It is more of an aggressive behavior than a courtship behavior, in which the pair rarely touch each other. Any possibility that she already has egg somewhere??

 

[Linus_Cello]

Wow nice tank! Not to hijack the thread, can you tell us more about the lighting, if you use CO2, the plants, etc.?

 

[JasonC]

Amazing looking tank! What are the tetras?

 

[Jay973]

Wow nice tank! Not to hijack the thread, can you tell us more about the lighting, if you use CO2, the plants, etc.?

Thank you. Sure thing details -
Light is a DIY 4 bulb retro fit kit T5HO 80w each bulb staggered since they are only 5 foot lengths and it's a 6 foot tank so the ends have slightly less light. Co2 is pressurized with controller and a Atomizer as diffuser on a dedicated fluval 405 also has the inline Hydor 300w heater, Sump only runs 8 hours or so after lights out more as a water polisher and degasses the tank a little. I dose dry ferts by tweaking what I think the tank needs (modified EI) 40%-50% water change every two weeks.

Flora
Alternanthera reineckii
Anubias nana
Anubias nana petite
Bolbitis heudelotii
Bucephalandra sekadau
Bucephalandra brownie purple
Bucephalandra brownie ghost
Cryptocoryne parva
Cryptocoryne spiralis
Cryptocoryne wendtii green gecko
Cryptocoryne wendtii green
Cryptocoryne wendtii red
Cyperus helferi
Echinorodus compacta
Hygrophila augustifolia
Hygrophila pinnatifida
Limnophila aromatica
Lobelia cardinalis
Ludwigia glandulosa peruensis
Vallisneria americana

 

[Jay973]

Amazing looking tank! What are the tetras?

Thanks. Those are Columbian Tetras

 

[Jay973]

The behavior of the female (biting the male's tail) is rather odd. It is more of an aggressive behavior than a courtship behavior, in which the pair rarely touch each other. Any possibility that she already has egg somewhere??

I thought it odd myself since she clammed on not letting go and he just curled back letting her. She's short than he is but her tail was back by his head. There's definitely two levels here one he tolerates tail nipping and whipping, and shaking. Then there's another level were he bolts across the tank to get away from her and she'll track and chase him despite plenty of plants and hidding spots.

If she did have eggs I doubt I'd know but they'd more likely have been from the macmasteri as the dominant one if the cross, no?

Here's another shot of the macmasteri/viejita

 

[Mike Wise]

A. macmasteri

 

[jumpmaster]

And a very nice one

 

[Culprit]

Beautiful tank and fish !

 

[Jay973]

Thank you, all.

The female A. hongsloi is back to her dull dark color not the bright yellow with orange highlights she last was which lasted about 3-4 days. I'll wait until the end of the

 

[Jay973]

Well it's been a while but there has been news. I moved my A. macmasteri to a 55g but shortly there after he didn't make it. The A. hongsloi pair left behind in the 180g have had eggs but they don't seem to care for the eggs. It almost seems like the male is intent on leading her to the other end of the tank where there is a lot more cover and the female is happy with the clay cave at the other end.

Here's a quick video you can briefly see the female at the left she is always orange so she seems receptive to breeding.

 

[Mike Wise]

I've heard it said somewhere that 'a community tank is not a breeding tank'. Seriously, if the female sees no possibility of the eggs fry surviving predation from other tank mates then she will eat them as nutrition for a later, hopefully more successful, spawn.

 

[Jay973]

I've heard it said somewhere that 'a community tank is not a breeding tank'. Seriously, if the female sees no possibility of the eggs fry surviving predation from other tank mates then she will eat them as nutrition for a later, hopefully more successful, spawn.

Normally I'd agree but if you see the video link you'd see several baby BN plecos at least the ones on the glass you can see. The Columbian tetras have also had fry survive although as egg scatters only a few mature to adult but I didn't start out with this many. So I'm convinced accidents happen and I'm hoping for one with my hongsloi....LOL

 

[Mike Wise]

Characins and catfish are not cichlids. Different families, different behavior. I'm not saying that producing apisto fry in a large community tank is impossible, but it's not as likely as in a breeding tank. Characins spawn and let the eggs/fry fend for themselves. Plecos tend the eggs/fry only until they are freeswimming. Then the fry fend for themselves. Neither invest heavily in parental care. Cichlids on the other hand invest a lot of time and effort after the fry become freeswimming. If this effort seems ineffective to them, then they often eat the eggs/fry. Just the way nature works.

 

[Jay973]

Characins and catfish are not cichlids. Different families, different behavior. I'm not saying that producing apisto fry in a large community tank is impossible, but it's not as likely as in a breeding tank. Characins spawn and let the eggs/fry fend for themselves. Plecos tend the eggs/fry only until they are freeswimming. Then the fry fend for themselves. Neither invest heavily in parental care. Cichlids on the other hand invest a lot of time and effort after the fry become freeswimming. If this effort seems ineffective to them, then they often eat the eggs/fry. Just the way nature works.

All true... which is why I don't have high expectation and anything to the contrary would be a pleasant accident if they do raise any fry.