Sexing apistogramma guttata

[d15n]

Hi all, this is my first post here!
To start of, I'm located in southeast asia and purchased a pair of German-bred apistogramma guttata from my fish shop recently.
I would like help confirming their gender. The first 2 pictures are of the one I believe to be male, the next 3 pictures are the one I'm having trouble with, I'm hoping it's a female. The last picture is of them together.
Thank you!

pia

 

[KenL]

I would be happy enough to pick those as a pair at the fish shop.
Are you seeing any interaction between them?

 

[MacZ]

I can't sex them because I haven't seen this species in front of me knowingly yet.

And because of that I'm a bit dumbfounded to see something resembling egg spots on a non-malawi/tanganjika cichlid. o.o

Just a side note.

 

[Mike Wise]

All I can say is that it probably is a pair, but it does not look like A. guttata in these photos. The holotype form of the species - which I had and reproduced back in the late 1980s - has multiple rows of spots along the flanks (2 above and 3 below the lateral band). You fish look more like A. sp. "Casanare" (= A. cf. guttata "Casanare", = A. sp. "Macguttata"), which Horst van Genne collected in the Rio Casanare (Colombia) in 2011.

 

[d15n]

I would be happy enough to pick those as a pair at the fish shop.
Are you seeing any interaction between them?

Hi,
I haven't been seeing much interaction between them yet as they're housed in a 3ft, occasionally when they bump into each other during feeding the male would just chase the alleged female a little. Notably they're only between 2cm to 4cm in size

 

[d15n]

I can't sex them because I haven't seen this species in front of me knowingly yet.

And because of that I'm a bit dumbfounded to see something resembling egg spots on a non-malawi/tanganjika cichlid. o.o

Just a side note.

Hi,
That's an interesting observation, only noticed it after you pointed it out!
I too am struggling to sex them (especially the "female") as this is the first time I'm seeing them.

 

[d15n]

All I can say is that it probably is a pair, but it does not look like A. guttata in these photos. The holotype form of the species - which I had and reproduced back in the late 1980s - has multiple rows of spots along the flanks (2 above and 3 below the lateral band). You fish look more like A. sp. "Casanare" (= A. cf. guttata "Casanare", = A. sp. "Macguttata"), which Horst van Genne collected in the Rio Casanare (Colombia) in 2011.

Hi,
That's very interesting to hear! I've tried to do some reading about this A. sp. "Casanare" but can't seem to find any information on it. Will you be able to shed some light in on the species?
I'm now in good mind to head back to the shop to get another 1-2 possible females should my current one turn out to be a male.
attached is some photos I took of them in the shop's tank if it may help with the identification

 

[Frank Hättich]

attached is some photos I took of them in the shop's tank if it may help with the identification

Very helpful pictures: it's A. guttata. At 2 cm total length the small one is too small to be sexed.

 

[Mike Wise]

I'm still not sure these are the holotype form of A. guttata. The fish I had were collected in the Orinoco delta of Venezuela and looked like this: https://www.researchgate.net/figure...eserved-live-coloration-in-the_fig6_271446155. Your fish are small so maybe the flank pattern will more fully develop.

 

[anewbie]

I'm still not sure these are the holotype form of A. guttata. The fish I had were collected in the Orinoco delta of Venezuela and looked like this: https://www.researchgate.net/figure...eserved-live-coloration-in-the_fig6_271446155. Your fish are small so maybe the flank pattern will more fully develop.

Well that is an amazing critter.

 

[d15n]

Very helpful pictures: it's A. guttata. At 2 cm total length the small one is too small to be sexed.

I'm still not sure these are the holotype form of A. guttata. The fish I had were collected in the Orinoco delta of Venezuela and looked like this: https://www.researchgate.net/figure...eserved-live-coloration-in-the_fig6_271446155. Your fish are small so maybe the flank pattern will more fully develop.

Thanks for the input everyone!
I'll just try to grow them out for now and come back with pictures when they're more sizable so we can look at the patterns.
By then I should be able to sex them better too!

 

[illumnae]

I believe you got them from buy fish at Clementi? If I remember correctly the Apistogramma guttata were marked as wildcaught by Glaser. The Apistogramma atahualpa should be German bred.

I'm thinking of going to get a pair myself tomorrow if they still have females left.

Edit: It does look to me that you have a male and a female. They're really small though, I was there earlier this week but didn't have the time to confidently pick out a pair.

 

[d15n]

I believe you got them from buy fish at Clementi? If I remember correctly the Apistogramma guttata were marked as wildcaught by Glaser. The Apistogramma atahualpa should be German bred.

I'm thinking of going to get a pair myself tomorrow if they still have females left.

Edit: It does look to me that you have a male and a female. They're really small though, I was there earlier this week but didn't have the time to confidently pick out a pair.

You're right! Took me a good 90 minutes of staring at the tank and I still am unsure of the fishes I brought home haha
Talked to the shop and they mentioned they didn't have a clue either.
All the best on your hunt for a pair!

 

[illumnae]

You're right! Took me a good 90 minutes of staring at the tank and I still am unsure of the fishes I brought home haha
Talked to the shop and they mentioned they didn't have a clue either.
All the best on your hunt for a pair!

Thanks, my cichlid atlas wasn't much help in providing guidance I'm not so patient to stare for 90 minutes so I'll probably end up with a male and a sneaker male, especially at the size they're at

 

[illumnae]

All the best with your pair! By the time I went today there were only 2 females left.