Is RO really necessary for Apistogramma baenschi, or can I make this work without it?

[Ada24]

Hi everyone,

I’m planning a new 80 × 35 × 45 cm (125 L / 33 gal) South American blackwater biotope aquarium and would really appreciate some advice before I commit to a species.

For a bit of background, this won’t be my first aquarium. I already run a healthy, established community tank and have experience keeping fish, maintaining water quality, and caring for more demanding species. However, this will be my first dedicated soft-water/blackwater aquarium, and I’ve never used a true RO system before.

The aquarium itself is established, and I’ll be taking it over together with its filter. The filter has been running for about 1.5 years in an aquarium with a pH of around 7.5, so I’d rather not shock the biological filtration by suddenly switching it to extremely soft, acidic water.

My source water (filtered drinking water) is approximately:

• pH: 6.8–7.2
• GH: 7 dGH
• KH: ~5 dKH

Installing a home RO system would be very difficult, and buying RO water from a fish store for every water change isn’t really practical.

The aquarium will have fine sand, lots of driftwood, leaf litter, botanicals, caves, visual barriers, and South American plants. The water will be tea-colored blackwater.

Planned stocking:

• 13 × Nannostomus marginatus
• 1 × L134 (Peckoltia compta)
• 1 × Red Lizard Whiptail or normal whiptail
• 1 pair (or trio, depending on species) of Apistogramma

My first choice is actually Apistogramma baenschi. If it’s realistically possible to keep them healthy and comfortable under my conditions, I’d much rather start with them from day one.

However, if my water chemistry simply isn’t suitable without RO, I’m considering starting with either:

• Apistogramma cacatuoides (probably a trio), or
• Apistogramma trifasciata

to gain experience with Apistos while the aquarium matures and I learn more about soft-water chemistry. If I eventually find a nice pair of baenschi and can improve my water preparation, I’d likely rehome the first Apistos and transition the tank to baenschi gradually.

I’m not trying to build a breeding setup. My main goal is to observe natural behavior, and if a few fry occasionally survive in the display tank, that would simply be a bonus.

My questions are:

• Is GH 7 / KH 5 simply too hard for captive-bred baenschi, even if the pH can be lowered?
• Is there a realistic and stable way to prepare water several days before water changes using botanicals, peat, acid buffers, or similar methods without using RO, or is RO essentially unavoidable for baenschi?
• Would trifasciata be a better intermediate choice than cacatuoides considering my current water parameters?
• If you were in my position, would you start with baenschi anyway, or would you gain experience with cacatuoides/trifasciata first and transition to baenschi later?

I’d especially appreciate hearing from people who have actually kept or bred A. baenschi, A. trifasciata, or A. cacatuoides under similar water conditions without a home RO system.

 

[anewbie]

You water is pretty hard and it is hte hardness you need to focus on and not the actual ph. My tap water is gh 6 kh 3 so softer then yours and i could not breed quite a few fishes (my honglosi would lay eggs like clock work - 2 females but non hatched - my rams could on occasion get a few eggs to hatch but most would not); i never kept baenschi but i suspect they require softer water - cockatoo is a species well known that can breed in harder water (though catch location makes a difference but that is not relevant to domestic fishes).
--
I've had no problems with cockatoo in my tap water (domestic - wild ones won't do well but luckily i have ro water for them).

Mrs google who makes tons of mistake suggest you need water hardness below 90 to breed a. baenschi and your water is closer to (guessing) 160 to 190.
-
Anyway my guess is they will lay eggs just fine but they will never hatch.

Also you want to exclude whiptails from your stocking. While i've kept whiptails with breeding apisto (and my Sturisomatichthys aureus are breeding in a tank with breeding apisto) those red lizards are likely to great a big issue when they try to crawl over a nest the female has carefully laid out for her eggs.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
What @anewbie says. I think you will also have issues with Peckoltia compta.

I don't where you are located, but could you use rainwater? For non-UK members we are in the middle of a record breaking drought and heat-wave, but normally it is fairly wet here.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Ada24]

You water is pretty hard and it is hte hardness you need to focus on and not the actual ph. My tap water is gh 6 kh 3 so softer then yours and i could not breed quite a few fishes (my honglosi would lay eggs like clock work - 2 females but non hatched - my rams could on occasion get a few eggs to hatch but most would not); i never kept baenschi but i suspect they require softer water - cockatoo is a species well known that can breed in harder water (though catch location makes a difference but that is not relevant to domestic fishes).
--
I've had no problems with cockatoo in my tap water (domestic - wild ones won't do well but luckily i have ro water for them).

Mrs google who makes tons of mistake suggest you need water hardness below 90 to breed a. baenschi and your water is closer to (guessing) 160 to 190.
-
Anyway my guess is they will lay eggs just fine but they will never hatch.

Also you want to exclude whiptails from your stocking. While i've kept whiptails with breeding apisto (and my Sturisomatichthys aureus are breeding in a tank with breeding apisto) those red lizards are likely to great a big issue when they try to crawl over a nest the female has carefully laid out for her eggs.

Thank you for the reply.

Tbf, I dont want to breed them either, it would be hard to rehome the frys after they breed therefore if they can happily live in this water its more than enough for me, if a miracle happens and one fry survives I wouldnt mind it tho ahahah

Interestingly my filtered tap waters tds is around 90-110 usually, would it be okay?

Non hatching is not a problem for me, more food for my future pleco ahahah

Oh why does whiptails create issues? By issues you mean fight inbetween apistos and whiptails? Damn I wouldnt want that.

 

[Ada24]

Hi all,
What @anewbie says. I think you will also have issues with Peckoltia compta.

I don't where you are located, but could you use rainwater? For non-UK members we are in the middle of a record breaking drought and heat-wave, but normally it is fairly wet here.

Cheers Darrel

By issues If you mean, peckoltia and whiptail trying to eat eggs, I dont mind it unless they wont harras each other or create aggressiveness and problem. I dont want to breed them, its hard to rehome them after they hatch, I wish I could tho :/

For now no I cant use rainwater and at winter, its not that rainy I think yet Im not sure. Turkey is reaaaally hot and moisty rn too. Its awful lol

 

[anewbie]

If you dont' want to breed save everyone a lot of stress and just get a male.

 

[Ada24]

If you dont' want to breed save everyone a lot of stress and just get a male.

I’ve heard keeping apistos solo is a bad and cruel thing since they desperately look for a mate, especially monogamous species from nissenji line. Isnt that true? Also wouldnt I miss out on what makes this specie special, breeding color changes, how they behave etc.?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

By issues If you mean, peckoltia and whiptail trying to eat eggs, I dont mind it unless they wont harras each other or create aggressiveness and problem.

The real problem is the nocturnal activity of the Loricariids, the stop the cichlids from resting in the lower levels of the tank. They will also eat eggs if they can get into the "caves".

For now no I cant use rainwater and at winter, its not that rainy I think yet Im not sure. Turkey is reaaaally hot and moisty rn too. Its awful lol

Point taken

Cheers Darrel

 

[Ada24]

Hi all,

The real problem is the nocturnal activity of the Loricariids, the stop the cichlids from resting in the lower levels of the tank. They will also eat eggs if they can get into the "caves".


Point taken

Cheers Darrel

Ooh I see what you mean. I’ve thought about that but I have a single Bolivian Ram in my 30G tank along with 9 pygmy corys, 1 subadult BN pleco and 1 juvenile BN pleco, 3 L262 Pleco (Im a pleco enthusiast), 4 goby and all of them are always really active whether it is day or night. He seems like hes resting well even though I have all those nocturnal fishes. I close my lights around 8pm and I check him occasionally until my sleeping time which is 1am. Hes sleeping at the same place usually, either right in the middle of the tank under the driftwood or around the rocky circle.

You made me curious about if hes resting well or not, how can I know it for sure ?

Edit: Also about the eggs, I dont mind if their eggs get eaten. It would save me from the aggresive behavior and the stress of what to do with surviving frys. Although I have another spare tank (My brothers tank) which doesnt have plecos in, I can move them there for their own wellbeing if anything occurs.

Cheers

 

[anewbie]

I’ve heard keeping apistos solo is a bad and cruel thing since they desperately look for a mate, especially monogamous species from nissenji line. Isnt that true? Also wouldnt I miss out on what makes this specie special, breeding color changes, how they behave etc.?

That is the first time i ever heard that - you will miss out i suppose but since you are creating an extremely stressful environment it is hard for me to imagine your fishes would be better off experiencing the extreme stress of a hopeless task of guarding eggs/frys.

Also you are being extremely contradictory - you want to experience the cycle of breeding fishes but you don't care if they fail miserably and you don't get to experience the full cycle of breeding fishes.

In any event it is best to create a situation that is stress free for the fishes though in truth i have several aquariums where things are quite a distance from optimal.

 

[Ada24]

That is the first time i ever heard that - you will miss out i suppose but since you are creating an extremely stressful environment it is hard for me to imagine your fishes would be better off experiencing the extreme stress of a hopeless task of guarding eggs/frys.

Also you are being extremely contradictory - you want to experience the cycle of breeding fishes but you don't care if they fail miserably and you don't get to experience the full cycle of breeding fishes.

In any event it is best to create a situation that is stress free for the fishes though in truth i have several aquariums where things are quite a distance from optimal.

Oh really? I guess I’ve heard it wrong, I’ve heard it from my local fb group and few other people from reddit, thats an option then.

Hmm, I see what you mean. I miss out on the fact that they will be highly stress when they dont see their eggs, my bad you are right.

Well, I want them the breed and experience the whole breeding cycle, dont get me wrong on that. My problem is what I will do after they breed and frys survive, there is a big apisto community in my country but there are really good breeders as well so I doubt I can rehome them. If I can be sure that I can rehome them I can let go of the loricidae family idea.

Yeah I dont want my fish to get stress, I agree on that. So if one wants to breed apisto pairs, there shouldnt be ANY botton dwellers, am I getting it right? + I have 2 more tanks that I can transfer the whiptail and any other pleco during the hatching time but Im thinking it would also be highly stressful for them, right?

Cheers