Setup for a cacs trio, maybe 4

[javoski]

I am planning to have a breeding setup for a trio of cacs. I ordered yesterday a 60cm x 35 x 33 (H) = 70 liters tank.

I think this can work if I manage to build phisical boundaries, with plants, driftwood and rocks.

I planing to build 2 diagonal lines of rocks, from the upper corners to the center. The lower rocks would have java moss and the upper rocks would have microsorum narrow leaves attached to them. Big red cryptos and blyxas in the end. Hardy and slowgrowing plants. (I will use CO2 and 2x20W fluorescent)

That would divide the aquarium into 3 triangles and I would put 3 caves in each triangle.

Do you think this would work? Should I limit myself to 2 females? Can it house 3 females?

Reading this old topic from Mike Wise, I guess it can work.

http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=3650&highlight=tank+setup

In a tank without boundaries, male apistos of polygamous species have been seen controling almost the entire bottom of a 48x12"/120x30 cm aquarium. On the other hand, I once had 2 males and 4 females living relatively harmoniously in a small tank (16X18X8"/40x45x20 cm). The dominant female always had fry (I suspect that she was taking fry from the other females, too). This was only possible because the entire tank was one large mass of Java Moss. The fish were always out of sight from each other. The subdominant male would dive into the mossy jungle whenever the dominant male came around. The females had caves in the 4 corners of the tank. According to Römer, my tank was more typical of apisto habitats in the wild - only there they live in leaf litter instead of Java Moss.

But I wonder: 2 females will be able to raise their fry in my setup?

In your setup, Mike (in case you read), do you move your fry at which stage?

Any comment is aprecciated.

 

[curviceps]

Has anyone re-created the "leaf litter" environment mentioned in the above quote? If so, what sort of leaves did you use and where do you get them from? Do the leaves decay and cause problems with water quality?

Cheers

 

[element]

Has anyone re-created the "leaf litter" environment mentioned in the above quote? If so, what sort of leaves did you use and where do you get them from? Do the leaves decay and cause problems with water quality?

Cheers

i use oak leaves in almost all my breeding tanks , i get them from my yard wich happens to be surrounded by oak trees. this time of year i've got more than i need so if any one wants any just bring a rake! the leaves dont really decay or just decay very slowly , however they don't really contain much nutrients so pollution isn't really much of an issue . the apistos really seem to love them and fry seem to scour them for micro organisims

-Jason

 

[Mike Wise]

javoski,

My cac tank was 40x45cm (16x18") and had a ball of Java Moss that was 40cm (16") in diameter & filled the entire height of the tank. Like I said, I barely saw the fish at all. I got a few (very few) fry from this set-up. I imagine most were eaten by the other cacs. I collected some juveniles (over 1cm) in floating film canisters where they would hide. I believe that a 60 cm tank for breeding should have no more than 2 females, even with the way you are decorating it. It leaves no place for the male to live if 3 females were in it.

 

[javoski]

I believe that a 60 cm tank for breeding should have no more than 2 females, even with the way you are decorating it. It leaves no place for the male to live if 3 females were in it.

Thx for your attention and help, Mike.

If I get it right, you mean that the male needs a territory also.
Dumb me.
I was thinking the male would be the king, patrolling all the tank.

 

[Mike Wise]

Many males get attacked and even killed by females trying to drive him out of her brood territory. The male's job after fertilizing the eggs is to patrol the outer borders of his breeding territory, keeping potential fry predators away from the female's brood territory.

 

[STOKER]

""leaf litter

Have just read the post on the "leaf litter'' substrate and have used for many years the same set up as used in killiefish keeping.
A layer of peat with a few flower pot saucers clay about 3 inches in diameter , these are about 1 inch high and knock a small hole in the lip , just large enough for the female to enter.
If you can get hold of "java moss" and can get it to grow on each saucer so much the better , as the fry seem to feed of the micro-orgasims that live on it.
I use 18x10x10 tanks for both killies and aspisto`s and find thats ok if a trio of aspisto`s are set up in the tank.

​

 

[AdamT]

I've got a 55ga. that I'm building up a population of apisto trifasciata in right now. At the moment it houses 7 juviniles and adults, and from watching it looks like many more could get in there as well.

I have covered the bottom of the tank with lengths of PVC. I initially read on this board of someone who had a tank with lots of lots of diftwood. Not wanting to spend the $$$ on the volume of driftwood that would be required, I got 2 8ft lengths of PVC (one 2 in. diameter, one 3) and cut it down into 3in to 8in segments. The bottom of the tank is basically covered with a double thickness of the stuff (call it 5 or 6 in. deep).

The idea was to mimic a leaf-litter like division of space. The apistos all have very compressed territories in it. Of course, over a longer time frame they may be moving all over the tank, but when I stop to look (and can find one of the buggers) the fish is generally not on the move. Even when one chases another, a single corner is generally enough for the fleeing fish to loose whoever is chasing it.

The difficult part getting plant growth in there to go with it. With no plants in there it looks rather like a moonscape, and the fish didn't seem very at home at all. I managed to jam a bunch of plants down into the gravel, but I think it might have been easier to plant stuff that spreads by runners, then dump in the PVC. Tall narrow plants work best (I've got some grasslike plant that spreads by runners that likes it, and something I bought as rotala but seems different that is running a stem along the ground as well). The anubias didn't do as well. The crypts seem to be finding a way to stay alive down at the bottom which suprised me. The white PVC doesn't absorb much light, and diffuse light makes it down to the gravel.

- Adam

 

[javoski]

Tall narrow plants work best (I've got some grasslike plant that spreads by runners that likes it, and something I bought as rotala but seems different that is running a stem along the ground as well).

- Adam

did you consider echinodorus tenellus?
not tall but in my 200l tank it spread like pest.
I begun with 5 plants and already got out of the tank over 300 (in a 1 year span).

The plant is very competent in finding small spaces to spread.