Newbie Dwarf Cichlids Questions

[bobo31]

Hello all,

I am new to this msg board and was hoping to get some general questions answered. I am intersted in keeping South American Dwarf Cichlids. However the only Cichlids that I have ever keep are Oscars, firemouths, Jack Demp, and Convicts.

Here are my tank params.
30gal. heavily planted. w/ 3.8wpg and CO2
ph - 6.9
KH - ~7
Gh - ~6
sand substrate

I would like to house apistos in this tank. However I don't know how many which ones or anything. I am not interested in breeding them at the moment so I would like to have as many different species as possible.

What compatability issues do I have to look out for?
Are some more aggressive than others?
Do they require hiding places like Africans?
Can they be housed with rams?

other inhabitants will include cory cats, ottos, and somekind of tetras(maybe lemons or rummynose).

Thanks for the help in advance.
Robert.

 

[Randall]

Apisto Set Up

Dear Bobo,

Welcome!

From the information you gave, it sounds like your water may be a little on the hard side for many Apistogramma species. A trio (1 male & 2 females) of A. borellii or A. cacatuoides, however, should thrive. Due to potential social conflicts, I wouldn't recommend putting more than a trio of one Apisto species in a 30-gallon tank. I think your idea of adding otocinclus sp., corys and some small tetras as dithers to the mix is excellent.

Apistogramma species are cave spawners, so some hiding places in the way of caves should be included. I know that you're not interested in breeding your fish at this time, but if you keep your tank at 76 degrees F and change one-third of the water each week, you may be surprised.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[bobo31]

Thanks for your reply.

I add seachem equallibruim to my water in order to increase the GH.
The GH of my tap water is actually 1GH.

So I can adjust the amount of equallibruim I use in order to obtain the right GH. However I don't know what that it is.

If I could adjust it to something what would be the optimum number?
What water params. do most of them share?

EDIT: You said that for social reasons you would NOT use more than one trio in a 30gal. but what about say a trio and two other single fish.

Thanks
Robert.

 

[Neil]

bobo31,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

I am not interested in breeding them at the moment so I would like to have as many different species as possible.

If your intention is just Dwarf Cichlid husbandry, than you can house several species in that sized tank. You possibilities are increased if you chose to go with other species in addition to Apistogramma. You can house males or females of 2 or 3 species of apisto and another genus. Or you could house a dicrossus, microgeophagus and an apisto. But, keep in mind that you may run into problems if anyone is paired and decides to spawn.

Are some more aggressive than others?

You bet! There are some apistos that are more aggressive than other apistos. There are some other SA Dwarfs that are more aggressive than other SA Dwarfs. And there are some individual fish that are more aggressive than they are supposed to be in relation to the norm of their genus or species.

Do they require hiding places like Africans?

They don't have to, but they will like you for it. Even though they may not use them, all Dwarf Cichlids should have structure in the tank to escape aggression from tankmates, claim as their spot, or just hang out to feel secure. It is likely that the more places there are to hide, the more they will be out in the open. If there is one rock in the tank, they will probably be behind it most of the time.

Can they be housed with rams?

Sure. These fish come from the same type environment and can live comfortably together. But, again, you need to know the disposition of the type fish and the individual fish that you will keep with them. Even rams can be mean to other fish when they have the proper motivation (territory defense, brood protection, etc.).

In general, you are a lucky devil in regards to your water. I would skip adding anything to change the hardness. The "right GH" for your fish is closer to your tap water than to your manipulated water. Save yourself some effort and just do straight tap water changes. Have fun.
Neil

 

[bobo31]

Thanks for all the welcomes. I mainly add the equallibrium for my plants so that they can get the Ca and Mg that they need.

After much info digging and from what I have been told here this is what I have come up with for my tank.

30 gallon heavily planted/3.8wpg/pressurized C02
ehiem canister filter.
PH 6.9
KH ~7
GH ~4 I would still like to use the equallibrium but I will use less.

sand substrate, lots of hiding places.

As for inhabitance:
6 cherry barbs
4 cory cats
4 ottos (maybe just for the first month or so to help with that startup algae)
trio of Cacutuoides Triple reds
1 Blue German Ram
1 male(Borelii)
and maybe one other Dwarf Cichlid not sure what though. (want to help with this one?)
and a small(6-8) school of lemon tetras

All of the cichlids will be added about 2 months after the tank is up and running

So how does that sound to you guys? Sounds kind of like an overstock to me what do think?
Thanks,
Robert.

 

[Randall]

As for inhabitance:
6 cherry barbs
4 cory cats
4 ottos (maybe just for the first month or so to help with that startup algae)
trio of Cacutuoides Triple reds
1 Blue German Ram
1 male(Borelii)
and maybe one other Dwarf Cichlid not sure what though. (want to help with this one?)
and a small(6-8) school of lemon tetras

All of the cichlids will be added about 2 months after the tank is up and running

So how does that sound to you guys? Sounds kind of like an overstock to me what do think?
Thanks,
Robert.

Dear Robert,

Pardon my saying so, but a trio of cacauoides plus one Ram plus one male borellii plus one unknown dwarf cichlid in a 30-gallon tank sounds like a recipe for disaster. When the cacatuoides start spawning, watch out! Additionally, 6 cherry barbs plus 6-8 lemon tetras, for a total of 12-14 dithers, may be overdoing it a bit. It's best to choose one species or the other. Besides with all those dithers, the cacatuoides fry will most likely get eaten.

I'd love to have tap water like yours. If you're worried about your plants not getting sufficient nutrients, why not select soft water plants? Any of the Amazon swordplants, Cryptocorne sp., Crinum sp. or lilies generally thrive in soft water.

Why wait two months before you add your first fish? If you're aiming to cycle the tank with plants and give them a head start, one month should be sufficient. Please don't add all of the fish at the same time. It's best to space the new additions to allow the system to absorb the increased bio load.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[bobo31]

Well after looking through the list of plants that I plan to keep all but two are fine in very soft water. According to tropica. So I guess I will for go messing with the water chem. To let you know the ph of my tap water is ~8.5 I will reach 6.9 using CO2 and a ph controller.

Anyway I am slowly starting to learn about these S.A. Dwarfs. please bare with me.

I have to wait because I am going to give most my current fish to my best freind and I won't see him until then. I am redoing my tank next weekend and I will have my current fish in there until I can get rid of them.


How about this.
The trio of Cacauoides (triple reds)
and I will stay with the 4 cory cats, (6-8)lemon tetras, and ottos

Would I be able to keep any other dwarfs in with this trio?
Some other species other than apistos? or even apistos for that matter?
I am sorry to be a pest about this but I really want to try to raise dwarfs.

Thank You,
Robert.

 

[Randall]

How about this I will tell you what fish I like and you tell me the best possible combos if you don't mind.
and I will stay with the cory cats, lemon tetras, and ottos

But the cichlids that I like in order from most liked to least liked.
1. Cacauoides (triple reds)
2. Viejita II
3. Agassizi (Red/Gold or Double Red)
4. Borelii (opal)
4. Blue Rams

Dear Robert,

At Apistogramma.com, we are happy to lend a hand.

Okay, your water is actually quite hard. To compensate, you're adding some kind of an acid buffer, or the equivilent, to lower the pH levels. CO2 injection tends to have a similar effect.

Please understand that for the most part dwarf cichlids are soft water fish. Some, however, will do well in harder water. Looking at the above list, both cacatuoides and borellii should do well in your proposed set up. Agassizi, viejita and M. ramirezi, on the other hand may not; they prefer very soft/acidic water. Another possible option for you may be the Bolivian Ram, Microgeophagus altispinosa. These rams are attractive, peaceful dwarf cichlids that thrive in water of moderate hardness and pH.

You sound like a highly consciencious hobbyist, good going! You might consider picking up a copy of either of the following books:

Linke, Horst & Dr. Wolfgang Staeck, "American Cichlids I - Dwarf Cichlids," Tetra-Press (1994)

Mayland, Hans J. & Dieter Bork, "South American Dwarf Cichlids," Landbuch-Verlag (1997)

Although a little dated, both are top drawer reference books.

Enjoy!

Randall Kohn

 

[Randall]

A. borellii

Oh Robert, one more thing,

I forgot to mention, please don't under estimate A. borellii. With their long dorsal, anal and pelvic fin extensions and their exquisite blue and golden yellow coloration; when mature, these fish have got to be counted among the most beautiful Apistogramma species.

Enjoy!

Randall Kohn

 

[bobo31]

Thanks I will try to pick up at least one of those books.
or maybe santa clause will come my way with one. HOHOHOHO!!

I am very into the aquarium hobby I love planted tanks(the most) and cichlids(a close 2nd) and once I found out that there was this whole beautiful species of dwarfs that would do well in a planted tanks without destroying everything I wanted to know more and as soon as possible.

I think my problem is I just want to many fish and I am not allowed to have anymore fish tank. I live with family members. One more year of school left, then I will have my own place. Anyway thank you for your help and in helping me gain a little knowledge about this species.

bye,
Robert.

 

[aspen]

hi robert. i'm with the others, there is no need to be adding anything to stabilise your water. your parms are even on the hard side of things. imo, the best thing is frequent water changes. but when adding co2, i like to keep my w/c's smaller (less ph shock) and more often. this will be good for your fish too. also, i age my water for changes. this improves my water greatly.

if you provide a nice environment for a single trio of a cacatoides, with some nice dithers, there will be lots of interest in your tank. in a tank such as a 30 gal, more of single species of dither, is better than say 4 neons and 4 glowlights. with tetras, the more the same, the better.

imo, cories are not nice for apisto tanks where you want to keep spawns- they eat spawns. that can be very frustrating for you.

so, my suggestion would be, 4 otos, 3 cacatoides, 8- 10 neons, glowlights, or cardinals, etc, and maybe trio of borellis. the second species will require that you he LOTS of cover for the less agressive species. but, imo, you would do better wihout the second species of apisto. they are not big fish, but they each require a little place to call home and defend. if you cannot have another tank, then you may watch the cacatoides take out the borellis one by one. this CAN happen with any apisto species' that you try to mix.

btw, i do not consider it possible to own only one tank. you NEED a quarentine/ hospital tank. (5 gal minimum for apistos and tetras etc.- 10 gal would be better.) one sick new fish added can totally wipe you out, very easily. a place for battered fish to rest would also be necessary, imo. i always have a 10- 15 gl tank around ready to be set up at any time.

rick

 

[peregrine3751]

Hi all;
Question from another newbie. I"ve been following this and my question is, were is the bottom end for PH, KH, and GH ? My tap water is really bad, PH 8 - 8.5, KH 9.5, and GH 19. So I've been looking around here for better water. We have a place here were I can get RO water with a PH of 6.0, KH 1, and a GH of 1. Is this to low ? I'm going to be useing CO2 so this will lower the PH even more. Do you think I'll be ok ?
Thanks
peregrine3751

 

[peregrine3751]

Sorry for the second post . I forgot, I would like to keep Apistos and Discus. The tank is 100gal.
Thanks
peregrine3751

 

[Neil]

peregrine3751,
Having an RO would be very helpful to you in both the husbandry and breeding of Dwarf Cichlids and discus. It is always easier to come up from very pure, soft, acidic water with the addition of a little tap, than it is to come down from the kind of values that you have to work with. The addition of CO2 just adds one more element to consider and just means that you have to monitor your KH. Do a search on this forum about CO2 and you will find a ton of info on that subject.
As far as how low can the values of water be for Dwarf Cichlids. Well that depends on the type of fish, but I have successfully kept and bred fish in 4.0pH and basically pure RO. A combination of RO and tap is usually adequate for most fish though.
Neil

 

[Randall]

Dear Peregrine,

Neil and I are in agreement here: please do yourself a favor and invest in an RO unit of your own. With a 100-gallon tank containing both Apistos and discus, you will be performing some significant water changes. Having your own RO unit at home--as opposed to bringing it in from an outside source--will simplify the water change process and allow you to sit back and enjoy your fish.

You can either buffer your RO water with a propriety product or simply mix it with tap water. Generally five parts RO to one part tap is a good mix. You will need to measure both GH and KH levels, especially if you're going to inject CO2 as well.

A 100-gallon discus/Apisto tank sounds fantastic. Please keep us posted as to your progress.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn