Newb with questions

[KCJohn]

Good day everyone! I am new and have already found the website very exciting to thumb through. I especially have enjoyed going through the forums. The wealth of knowledge that you folks have is phenomenal. (ok butt-kissing over now! hehe)

I intend to breed and am leaning toward new world/south american dwarfs. What are some that are similar size as Rams? I don't believe this will be taken the wrong way in this forum, but I would like to keep in consideration sellability. You already know how expensive this hobby is, anything that I can do to lessen the negative cash flow would be great.

Thanks for any feedback and look forward to speaking more with you all!

John
Kansas City, MISSOURI

 

[Apistt_ed]

..

Hello john,
Welcome to the forum and to Apistos. It's great to hear that you're getting into the world of apistos. Of course, with apistos, water is something that will be dealt with when it comes to keeping and breeding them. In most cases this can be done through a number of ways such as Reverse osmosis units (R/O unit) which you can purchase or if it is available there, you can buy it (water) at stores. Here in Wisconsin, at many Wal-marts and food stores, there are refill systems that are available for drinking, I personally use it just for apistos. *if you go asking for R/O water in these stores, chances are they will not have any IDEA of what you're talking about. You would probably have to go see if they have a water refill system (oasis as it's called here), and simply sample the water. Option two, is that you filter peat moss. It's been discussed thoroughly in this forum!! Most, but certainly not all apistos will need soft acidic water to spawn though so it's something you must deal with though. If that can done, then your options are endless!! Trust me, it's not that hard to do!

For pure ease of keeping certain apistos and their sellability along with relative easy breeding...a couple of the species that don't require soft acidic water. I would suggest Apistogramma Cacatuoides and A. Borellii. These two have been bred in neutral ph7 to slightly hard alkaline water. They are also relatively easy to keep. A. Cacatuoides are slightly larger than the average full grown Ram but are splendid in a well planted tank. A. borellii on the other hand can be kept in groups and are very peaceful when it comes to cichlids and is about the size of Rams. I would suggest maybe a trio of cacatuoides (1male/2females) and for borellii, they could be kept in a group 2-3 males & 4 females in a 20Long tank perfectly fine. These two species are sellable and come in many colors to boot! Have fun! I hope this has helped alittle and gets you on your way! welcome and feel free to ask questions.

john

 

[KCJohn]

Thanks for replying with all that great info! I had run accross some of the stuff you discussed on the forums, but I have to admit I am a bit uninformed about hardness. And unfortunately neither do people at the petstores I've been to. Thanks to these forums I am already gaining a ton of knowledge.

I'll let you know when things get going here. For now, thanks!

John

 

[Neil]

KCJohn,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

John gives a bunch of really good advice. I would add, however, that one should not go into this thing thinking about making any real profit. It will detract from the experience and lead to decisions that may end your desire to work with Dwarf Cichlids. Dwarf Cichlids are not money makers. They are too hard to work with and breed for the average aquarists or LFS to buy in any large numbers. Some species are better than others, but none are even close to breeding angels when it comes to turning a small profit.

That said, I would suggest the 2 apistos John mentioned, but also my pick would be rams. Water hardness is a concern with breeding them, but that can be easily remedied via RO water. Once you have your water under control, they are more productive than apistos, more likely to sell in larger numbers and aren't as tied to "pairing". Apistos quite often need to be sold as pairs for comsumers to really get interested in them., but a tank full of rams at the LFS is a better situation for the store.

One last thing. Although you said you were leaning towards SA fish, don't completely overlook West African. They can be very pretty, interesting to work with, productive, and often easily sold to LFSs. Pelvicachromis pulcher is especially suited for your needs.

Good luck,

Neil

 

[KCJohn]

Thanks for the welcome and advice Neil. Let me ask you this then since this is generally what my goal is. I was looking at doing bettas because they're beautiful and because there are many ways that you can vary their colors and stuff. No way in hell I'm doing bettas because that would just take up entirely too much space that I don't have now anyway. I like cichlids and find some species very beautiful. What species can I make a difference regarding colors? I'm not looking to make freak balloon fish or something hehe, just play some little mad scientist for a lack of a better way of putting it.

BTW, Africans are definitely easy on the eyes too. For some reason I have this skepticism in my head about it being a lot more difficult or something. Anyway, your thoughts (or anyones for that matter!)?

John

 

[Neil]

What species can I make a difference regarding colors? I'm not looking to make freak balloon fish or something hehe, just play some little mad scientist for a lack of a better way of putting it.

Every species. Selective breeding can alter the color of most species by promoting genes that have to do with that desired attribute. If you want more red in a cacatuoides, you grow out a batch of fry and choose the ones with the most red to breed again. You may not be making a big difference and it might not be apparent in the next generation, but it usually makes a difference. By the way, that is the species that I would suggest that you work with in regards to selective breeding for color. There is enough of them around to get stock to work with. Females are a big factor in selective breeding and cacatuoides females tend to show their color attributes better than alot of other apistos. A female with marking that almost make it look like a male will usually produce a spawn of some really good fry, even if the male is not drop-dead colorful.

You can choose good specimens of rams too and breed those too in the same way as cacs. And, again, if you want to turn a profit, you might have an easier time selling larger amounts of rams in your area.

BTW, Africans are definitely easy on the eyes too. For some reason I have this skepticism in my head about it being a lot more difficult or something. Anyway, your thoughts (or anyones for that matter!)?

In general, African Cichlids are not as challanging to breed as SA Dwarf Cichlids. West Africans are more closely aligned with SA Dwarf Cichlids, but IMO are still a little easier, aside from their higher level of aggression. African Cichlids are in every LFS. SA and WA Dwarf Cichlids are not. As such they give you a chance to reduce the competition for the sale of your fry.

Neil

 

[Greg PL]

That said, I would suggest the 2 apistos John mentioned, but also my pick would be rams. Water hardness is a concern with breeding them, but that can be easily remedied via RO water. Once you have your water under control, they are more productive than apistos, more likely to sell in larger numbers and aren't as tied to "pairing".

well, it shows how different things are across the Big Pond.
you can buy a ram for 1,4 PLN ~ 1/3 USD wholesale (10-20 pcs) in Poland. they come in masses from the Far East and usualy don't fare well in the tanks. they tend to live for 2-3 months or die right after introduction, no matter what conditions you prepare for them. definitely not the beginners' fish. in most of cases the same goes for A. cacatuoides.
on the other hand knowing local breeders you can get really nice and healthy fish of both mentioned species that are easy to keep and breed. only the breeders generaly do not sell them to shops, as the gain would not cover the cost...

Greg
www.apisto.pl

 

[Neil]

Greg PL,

Very true, Greg. There is also a problem here with a large number of rams. This is a species that it really makes alot of sense to find good stock. Once you do though, rams tend to be much more stable and versitile than their reputation leads us to believe. The problems associated with rams are a half heaven/half heartache kind of thing. Shops are often leery of rams because they have so many loses and returns. I know of several shops here that guarantee all freshwater fish, except rams. Once you have stable fish and convince a shop of that, they are likely to want alot. Many of us here know how great a fish rams can be. They can be worth a little extra effort.

Neil

 

[KCJohn]

Well, I ended up going shopping before I had a chance to read all the responses so let me fill ya'll in on what I did. I ended up with two tanks: 10 and 20 gal. Bought two Blue Ram and 1 albino (experiment I guess) and three Eureka Peacocks. So decided to try both continents instead of choosing LOL!

I have done some research on the peacocks and I haven't figured out exactly what type of peacocks I have. Doesn't seem Eureka really means much at all. We tried to get 2 female and 1 male of each. Not really sure yet how we did. I'll update you as I get more info! Thanks again for all the great info!

John