Ich on A. agassizi female question

[rusticitas]

I am very much the amateur when it comes to diagnosing and healing fish, but I need some advice and help.

I just recently got my first ever apistos, a pair of A. agassizi. The male is fairly agressive and the female is pretty shy, and hides a lot. Last Friday I noticed what looked like Ich on both, very little on the male, more on the female. Unfortunately I had to leave town for the weekend and I could do nothing about it then.

When I returned on Sunday evening, she was worse. Looked lethargic, fins were "clamped" (I believe this is the right term), her caudal fin looking more like a point than a fan. She was extremely shy and hiding a lot. I set up a small hospital tank (2.5g) with a sponge filter (unfortunately new, not cycled), some java moss, a little clay cave, and a small heater. I took water directly from the original 20g tank.

I have been treating, nightly, with 1.25ml of Kordon(?) RidIch, after doing a 25-50% water change from the original tank. This last bit only just struck me as potentially being not a good thing. However all other fish in the main tank are fine, and I had been running a QuickFilter for awhile with a new filter screen/media since the Ich first appeared. My understanding is that the QuickFilter media can catch the Ich and trap it.

The water has been keeping at about 80-82F, the air is bubbling into the filter at brisk, but not violent pace, one can see gentle movement in the water from the java moss.

The female is still VERY shy. What can I do to entice her out and make her more comfortable and friendly? I have been dropping in clean blackworms, some microworms or grindal worms. She seems to have partaken of the blackworms a little bit.

When she is out, she seems to hide behind the black plastic trim on the bottom of the tank. The tank is a standard AGA 2.5g. It is hard to get a response other than "hide".

Would appreciate any advice. Thanks!

 

[rusticitas]

Dang! I thought she was looking better yesterday, but today she is much worse. Looking very gray. Very lethargic. :-(

The RidIch seems to work, then not work. Not blaming it, just curious what I might not be doing right. I have been treating her since Monday. Could the continued use be detrimental?

-J

 

[fishgeek]

anything above 25 degree's celsius is fine for treating ich
lifecycle doesnt get any faster than 5 days turnover and only the life stage that is free swimming is treatable

3 cycles is often needed to clear ich
ich will poduce enough of an immue response in healthy fish that they should not catch it a second time

personally i have had no trouble clearing ich
ensure your new tanks water stays healthy and that there is enough oxygen in the water , are the fish flashing or just dull and lethargic
any respiratoty signs

the dull lethargic may just be fear as you say she is unsettled
turn the lights out reduce movement that is visible in the tank and make her feel secure

make sure nothing else is being missed , watch for feacal quality/respiration rate
your changing water from the main tank is possibly continuing infection and is also at least water from a cycled aged source
what is your tap like
if you do large water changes every day from water that is good you will remove lots of wastes' from the water and also any free swimming ich life stages
not to mention anything else we may have not diagnosed as a problem in the water column
on the neagtive side you are also removing medications

salt has been used to aid in ich removal and if respiratory damage has occured, i am not certain asto the use of salt in soft water species like apisto's
perhaps others will have a more experienced opinion here

andrew

 

[rusticitas]

Andrew, thank you for the advice, it is greatly appreciated.

So, if life cycle above 25C/77F is ~5 days, and you it needs 3 cycles, would she be in the medicated tank for ~15+ days then?

I just noticed that the male in the main tank now shows signs of ragged caudal and dorsal fin. No idea where that's coming from. He can outpace anyone in the tank (only mates are otos and goo-obo gudgeons). Might set up another medicine tank for him and watch.

Are apistos any more delicate than "most" fish?

 

[fishgeek]

the more delicate thing seems to be suggested , though i disagree
they are hardy fish that demand clean water , i only find them to be more nitrate sensitive
others may differ in opinion as i am relatively young at fishkeeping

the tattered fin edges may indicate some water quality issues though i find the fish become lethargic as you described the female when nitrites or other are elevating

ich has many variants some are more likely to affect gill epithelium others appear more medicine resistant
the product you are using is formalin and malachite green and yes i would keep using it for at least 15 days to be sure

 

[rusticitas]

The female died. After ~10 days of treatment, the ich never subsided even a bit. She just got worse. Dang. :-(

The male is fine. Very inquisitive little fellow. Fins are nearly back to normal. Eating well.

Too bad! My fish medical skills are still lacking, but I'll have to read up more. Hate to see that happen.

 

[fishgeek]

that is a shame
i have read that there may be some more pathogenic strains of ich about, as yet i have not encountered, and i am by nature quite skeptical

andrw