cycling low PH/KH/GH aquarium.

[ronv]

Hi all. I'm getting back into the hobby after several years. Local water has very little buffering capacity. GH and KH are both less than 50ppm. Great for apistos so that is my aim. But first I need to cycle. I am somewhat familiar with this process with normal water conditions. I also am aware of the problems with soft water realizing that a PH crash will occur and will stop nitrification. Should I buffer the water in some way to try and stabilize the PH during cycling. Another question that puzzles me is after cycling and I have a low GH/KH aquarium, what keeps nitrification going. Or, in other words, what keeps the PH stable so the bacteria can do their thing?

 

[Evan]

A kh of 50 ppm should be enough to keep your ph from crashing in a well maintained tank under normal conditions. I keep my kh at about 2 dkh which is less than 50 ppm.

If you are doing something during your cycle that you think will crash the tank you can always buffer it up while you cycle. A phosphate buffer like discus buffer will work. You can also use something as simple as baking soda but this will raise your ph as well.

 

[ronv]

KH is actually less than 50ppm. Its more like 20 or so. Its hard to tell from the test and it is already crashing. I'm at day four of the cycle. PH started at 6.8 and is down to 6 or lower. 6 is the low end of my test kit. If I buffer now, what happens at the end when I remove the buffer? My ultimate goal is to have a low hardness tank.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Ronv I wish I had your tap water, mine is pretty much identical to Lake Malawi. I don't ever cycle my tanks as such, and I think that the answer is the "black water" Apisto tanks are never cycled in the same way they would be if you kept, for example, Oscars or Mbuna in a plant free tank with a big external filter.

Have a look at (Apisto)Bobs "dwarf cichlid" website, he is a member of this forum with lots of practical experience and many of us follow similar management techniques.
http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Aquarium_care.php>

It's been hot in the UK for the last week, and I found out last night that I'd un-plugged the filter in one of the tanks (rather than the heater) sometime last week, all the fish were fine and I only noticed because there was some surface scum formed when I fed them, I think if most "cycled" tanks weren't filtered for a week the effect would be much more dramatic.

I plant fairly heavily (with low light plants), have a silica sand substrate and wait until the biofilm builds up and the tank stabilises before adding any fish (usually several months). I use sponge filters, powered by a powerhead, and start with an already seeded one, but my suspicion would be this doesn't make much difference. If you have lots of plants and bioflm, and fairly low stocking, the tank is not dependent upon the filter bacteria and at very low pH they are probably not having much effect, what most of us do is a water change more frequently than most fish keepers (I change 10% every day), and if I kept black water species (A. diplotaenia, A. pulchra etc.) I'd probably double that amount.

cheers Darrel

 

[ronv]

Hi Darrel. Thanks for that post. That helps my understanding. So I'm pretty much wasting time trying to cycle. So how do I get to the "established" aquarium with the bio-film. Do I understand that the frequent water changes in black water tanks are necessary to dilute ammonia?

 

[dw1305]

Hi Ronv,
Realistically you need the plants, and what filter/biofilm bacteria there are to mop up the ammonia, plants preferentially take up ammonia (and probably nitrite) in preference to nitrate. We also have to take the reduced toxicity of ammonia/ammonium at lower pH into account

These are sensitive fish and the water needs to be 0ppm for ammonium and nitrite, and probably below 20ppm nitrate as well. Water changes will only dilute your nitrate if you have a low nitrate supply to add (probably RO or rainwater) rather than tap.

See if you can get hold of a copy of Diana Walstad's book, I've found it very useful.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Establishing the biofilm

Hi all,
Failed to answer this question, but my answer is just wait, I'm a very low tech fish keeper and there may be quicker ways, but this is the one that works for me, not much can go wrong, and I still add the fish load over a period of weeks once the tank is stable, first dithers, cichlids and finally Otocinclus.
cheers Darrel

 

[ronv]

OK.. plants. I've never had much luck with plants but maybe I can do water sprite or something. Do I need to get fancy with CO2, special lights, etc??? BTW, my tap water is pretty good- nitrate measures 0. I have been playing around with an automatic drip water changing system using tap water. Thanks again for your help...

 

[dw1305]

lighting

Hi all,
Ronv others will tell you different, but my degrees is in botany, and I will tell you that the fundamental requirement for plant growth is light, and if you have enough light plants will grow.Water Sprite etc will do. Again I'd recommend Apistobob's suggestion.

cheers Darrel

 

[Apistomaster]

Darrel is quite correct.
Your water is almost ideal and i would accept the ph drifting down. The nitrogen cycle bacteria can adapt to a pH as low as 4.0 although they will be less efficient so never overload such a tank. Few Dwarf Cichlids won't breed well in water with a pH of 5.0 to 7.0 as long as the water is soft. Plants like watersprite or hornwort are adaptable and fast growing. Fast growth assures a rapid ammonia uptake so having them is desirable. You do not need rooted plants in the substrate since your caves and maybe some wood provide the Apistos sufficient structure. Also use as much live food as you can so there will be little waste food to decay.

 

[ronv]

OK, so duckweed, water sprite, frog bit...all floating. No other plants. Driftwood, leaf litter, caves etc. I will have a constant drip water change system, about 10%/day. Vacuum gravel once a week. Feed (live as much as possible). Nothing added to water. Sit back and watch em breed. Sounds easy. I'm excited!!!
Anything else?

 

[cedartree]

OK.. plants. I've never had much luck with plants but maybe I can do water sprite or something. Do I need to get fancy with CO2, special lights, etc??? BTW, my tap water is pretty good- nitrate measures 0. I have been playing around with an automatic drip water changing system using tap water. Thanks again for your help...

RonV:

If you're starting out with plants, suggest you go slow and not go overboard with Co2 injection, fancy lights, special substrate, etc. I found the following article of great help when I first got interested in plants. A great example of the KISS system IMO.
Walt

http://www.plantgeek.net/article_viewer.php?id=17

 

[ronv]

Thanks cedartree. I plan to "keep it simple". Maybe you can help me with something. My tanks are set up on homemade racks in my basement. I have a row of standard 4' "shop light" flouresent fixtures over the tanks. I'm trying to determine if I need plants that require low light, medium, high??? I have two 32 watt bulbs over 20 gal water= 3.2 w/gal. Thats pretty high isn't it? Will I have algae problems?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Sounding good Ronv, the WPG "rule" doesn't work very well for small tanks, but that is plenty of light, what ever the colour temperature (K value) of your tubes. It does depend a little bit on the spectrum of the lights (and the diameter of the fluorescent tube), for example (for the same wattage) T5 6500K triphosphor "natural daylight" tubes will produce a lot more light (in the right wavelengths for plant growth) than T12 2700K "warm white" tubes.

Your tank won't have an algal "bloom", because even though you have enough light your low stocking, stabilised tank and low nutrient water won't provide enough nutrients, this really is a case where you are keeping water not fish.

The floater are good, but I'd still go for some submerged plants, Java fern and Anubias on the wood, and probably the most important of all "Java" moss. I also really like Water Lettuce (Pistia) as a floater as it has really great, long, fine complex roots. You want the moss/floating plant roots to develop a biofilm, this is important for both adding filtration and providing small food items - rotifers etc for your fry. I've still got some PVC piping and clay pot caves, but all my new caves are coco-nut shell 1/2's, as you can plant these with mosses and ferns. I like the trickle water change, leaves etc as well. I let the plants grow into a real jungle in the summer, but I do thin them out a little for the winter when there is less sunlight.

Live food is important as well, I don't do BBS any more, (although I probably would if I had more tanks), but I keep cultures of Grindal and Micro-worms, very low maintenance compared to BBS. I also feed plenty of wild collected mosquito larvae and Daphnia in the summer, (and bloodworms, glassworms, swimming Mayfly larvae, Gammarus etc. in the winter).

For a substrate silica sand is better than gravel, the fish can sift it, move it around etc, fry don't fall into the gaps, the mulm sits on top and you don't need a very deep layer. Pool filter sand is best but any silica sand will do. I never vacuum my substrate, I very occasionally syphon some of the mulm up it is helping the tank stay stable, again have a look at ApistoBobs site or search the posts.

cheers Darrel

 

[ronv]

Thanks again Darrel

 

[cedartree]

Thanks cedartree. I plan to "keep it simple". Maybe you can help me with something. My tanks are set up on homemade racks in my basement. I have a row of standard 4' "shop light" flouresent fixtures over the tanks. I'm trying to determine if I need plants that require low light, medium, high??? I have two 32 watt bulbs over 20 gal water= 3.2 w/gal. Thats pretty high isn't it? Will I have algae problems?

ronv:

I would just go with one bulb rather than two for your setup. This will give you 1.6 w/gal which should be more than adequate for the plants recommended in the plant geek article. You'll always have algae, but there is good algae and bad algae. One good reason to have some Water Sprite and Hornwort in your tank is that they are fast growing, and use up excess nutrients and keep things in balance. One of the best beginner plants in the Hygrophila Pylysmerma. Unfortunately, it is considered a noxious week and banned here in Texas. My guess is that it is also banned in your neck of the woods. Of course, you should use a timer for your light. Recommended durations are anywhere from 10-14 hours per day. I would start with 10 hours. Not sure if your shop lights have the correct lighting spectrum. The general rule of thumb is to have bulbs with a 5000-7000 Kelvin rating. These can be quite be expensive. However, I recently found a decent bulb at Home Depot, the Philips Home Light Daylight Deluxe, T8, and is rated at 6500K. These are 48" bulbs and only cost about 5 bucks. Maybe you can find these, or something like them, locally. If you're willing to spend a bit more, a better bulb is the Zoo-Med Ultra Sun Trichromatic fluorescent. Believe this is currently selling for about 14-15 bucks from That Fish Place or Drs. Foste Smith mail order outlets.

All the other Plant Geek articles on their site are all very good and easy to follow. The aritcle on managing algear is quite good.
Walt

 

[dw1305]

Lights

Hi All,
Cedartree wrote

"I recently found a decent bulb at Home Depot, the Philips Home Light Daylight Deluxe, T8, and is rated at 6500K. These are 48" bulbs and only cost about 5 bucks."

Good find, in fact for $5, fantastic, they would be absolutely perfect.

cheers Darrel

 

[ronv]

Hi Darrel. Went to Lowe's today and got GE "Ecolux daylight 40". It has 6500K. Thanks for your input!