c. hastatus problem

[anewbie]

Not really on topic for this forum but aren't they found in true blackwater conditions or do they require minerals in the water?

I.e, can ph actually be too low for them (i have them in a 100 gallon aquarium with the winkelfleck) but they seem to have a high level of 'infant' death that is death the first week after receiving them.

They are label as wc brazil.

A google search brings up this text but i have no true if it is accurate; never occurred to me that the ph could actually be too low or conversely the water too soft.


Risks of an extremely low pH
A pH that is too low, particularly below 5.5, can cause significant problems for the fish.
Mineral loss: Fish in very acidic water struggle to regulate their internal chemistry and can lose vital minerals and salts through their gills.
Gill damage: Gills are sensitive and can be damaged by extreme pH levels, impairing the fish's ability to absorb oxygen.
Reduced immunity: Chronic stress from poor water conditions can weaken the fish's immune system, leaving them more susceptible to disease.

 

[MacZ]

A google search brings up this text but i have no true if it is accurate; never occurred to me that the ph could actually be too low or conversely the water too soft.


Risks of an extremely low pH
A pH that is too low, particularly below 5.5, can cause significant problems for the fish.
Mineral loss: Fish in very acidic water struggle to regulate their internal chemistry and can lose vital minerals and salts through their gills.
Gill damage: Gills are sensitive and can be damaged by extreme pH levels, impairing the fish's ability to absorb oxygen.
Reduced immunity: Chronic stress from poor water conditions can weaken the fish's immune system, leaving them more susceptible to disease.

Yeah... if all of this was true, there would be no true softwater fish anywhere in the wild. It brings up all the problems these species have found solutions for in course of their evolution. Mineral loss is mostly connected to water hardness, not pH.
And that about the immunity: These fish often rely on soft and acidic water for their health and development of their

Not really on topic for this forum but aren't they found in true blackwater conditions

Gastrodermus hastatus have a range south of the Main Channel of the Amazon, so unlikely to be blackwater. Mostly clearwater.

 

[anewbie]

Yeah... if all of this was true, there would be no true softwater fish anywhere in the wild. It brings up all the problems these species have found solutions for in course of their evolution. Mineral loss is mostly connected to water hardness, not pH.
And that about the immunity: These fish often rely on soft and acidic water for their health and development of their

Gastrodermus hastatus have a range south of the Main Channel of the Amazon, so unlikely to be blackwater. Mostly clearwater.

But would blackwater be deadly to them; i.e, do they require low level of minerals in the water around 40 ec ? 1 or 2 gh ?

 

[MacZ]

If you look at the EC readings for clearwater and blackwater they are not far apart and both significantly below 40 microSiemens. So if anything the pH of true blackwater below 4 could pose a problem.

I don't see a problem there.

I would rather expect a problem from the seller's side or the acclimation period is too short/long. Thought about acclimating in quarantine?

 

[anewbie]

If you look at the EC readings for clearwater and blackwater they are not far apart and both significantly below 40 microSiemens. So if anything the pH of true blackwater below 4 could pose a problem.

I don't see a problem there.

I would rather expect a problem from the seller's side or the acclimation period is too short/long. Thought about acclimating in quarantine?

Might try - not buying any more this year.

 

[Mike Wise]

Fish Base lists water values in their habitat as "pH range: 6.0 - 8.0; dH range: 5 - 19", so not a true blackwater species. As far as I know this species is only found in clearwater streams.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Risks of an extremely low pH
A pH that is too low, particularly below 5.5, can cause significant problems for the fish.
Mineral loss: Fish in very acidic water struggle to regulate their internal chemistry and can lose vital minerals and salts through their gills.
Gill damage: Gills are sensitive and can be damaged by extreme pH levels, impairing the fish's ability to absorb oxygen.
Reduced immunity: Chronic stress from poor water conditions can weaken the fish's immune system, leaving them more susceptible to disease.

Yeah... if all of this was true, there would be no true softwater fish anywhere in the wild. It brings up all the problems these species have found solutions for in course of their evolution. Mineral loss is mostly connected to water hardness, not pH.

I agree with @MacZ , I just ignore anything I read about "pH stability". What I would say is that in very soft water you need some humic compounds, again I don't know exactly the reason.

I think most of of these "facts" are written by the vendors of "pH buffers", "remineralising salts" and "aquarium tonic salt", they just want to sell you a product.

but they seem to have a high level of 'infant' death that is death the first week after receiving them.

They are label as wc brazil.

I'm guessing that is the important bit, and that they were fatally weakened during capture, storage or transport. I think the same applies to Otocinclus spp. as well.

I've kept Gastrodermus hastatus and/or G. pygmaeus for the last ~15 years and I think the secret is to give them some leaf litter and feed them regularly with a small live food item, I use Banana worms. With Otocinclus? If you can get them eating vegetables they will also prove long lived. I only have heavily planted tanks, but that may also be a factor in successful keeping.

I don't think any of these fish are too worried by water that is soft, or very soft, but G. hastatus are fine in harder water too.

cheers Darrel

 

[anewbie]

Hi all,


I agree with @MacZ , I just ignore anything I read about "pH stability". What I would say is that in very soft water you need some humic compounds, again I don't know exactly the reason.

I think most of of these "facts" are written by the vendors of "pH buffers", "remineralising salts" and "aquarium tonic salt", they just want to sell you a product.

I'm guessing that is the important bit, and that they were fatally weakened during capture, storage or transport. I think the same applies to Otocinclus spp. as well.

I've kept Gastrodermus hastatus and/or G. pygmaeus for the last ~15 years and I think the secret is to give them some leaf litter and feed them regularly with a small live food item, I use Banana worms. With Otocinclus? If you can get them eating vegetables they will also prove long lived. I only have heavily planted tanks, but that may also be a factor in successful keeping.

I don't think any of these fish are too worried by water that is soft, or very soft, but G. hastatus are fine in harder water too.

cheers Darrel

I've not had much issue with oto; nearly all are wc; however i think next time i try hastatus i'll put them in tap water (which is ec 240 or so) since they seem to prefer the minerals. For food i feed them very fine ground up bugbite mixed with algamax (ground to a powder) and there is a tone of veggie matter as my aquarium is quite packed with plants with about 1/2 the 100 gallons invisible due to dense plants and leaves.

Going back to oto i think i usually have one in ten die after a year and virtually none the first few months. THe biggest problem is i keep them in warmer water around 78; though the hastatus did end up in the one aquarium i'm able to keep at 76 during the summer - during the winter it is 74 or so.

I do wonder if the super soft water makes the hastatus very fragile - i did put a group of wc pygmy in my bed room aquarium which runs 79 during the summer and nearly all of them made it (it is 180 gallon). The largest fish in that aquarium were keyholes but they are aging out fast probably perhaps due to due to the temp. During the winter it is 75.