Beckfordi pencilfish sensitive??

[JasonC]

So I picked up 6 Beckfordi pencils on Wednesday, and put them into quarantine. As of last night, 3 have suddenly died ,one by one over the past few days, without any obvious symptoms. Then this morning about 20 minutes after feeding, I found 2 more dead. Can you all think of any reasons for this? Are they super sensitive to water parameters? Food? Etc? Food offered so far have been BBS, and Hikari micro pellets. Did a 60%appx PWC last night with dechlor tap.

These guys were not cheep, and would like to know if it was something I did, or just bad stock before I try grabbing more.

 

[Tom C]

My beckfordis are some of the less sensitive fish I have....and I actually cannot see that you did anything wrong.

My wild guess:
We have seen some imports of Asia-breed N. beckfordi here the last year. They look fantastic; nice size, and the males are showing their breeding colors (all red) constantly, even in the shop! (It's not very natural to constantly show breeding colors....!)

A fishkeeper here had these as dither fish in a Apistogramma tank. The (constantly all red) males of these fish showed an unbelievable amount of aggressive behavior! They attacked the other fish physically again and again, and almost wiped out all the others of the same kind. And what nobody had expected or seen before: they even killed several Apistogramma, both youngsters and fully grown fish!
I don't know what the breeders do with these fish, but they must have been given something to constantly show nice colors...the side effects, however, are tragic.

I presume your quarantine tank is just a naked tank with no hiding places for subordinate fish? If you have some of the same kind of beckfordi as described above, there would be no shelter or hiding places, and the subordinate fish would have been easy targets for aggressive males....

 

[JasonC]

This is fascinating, but tragic information Tom... its a shame that there are such irresponsible breeders out there that are more interested in profit than quality of the species.

As for the beckfordis that I have, i think that, fortunately, they do not fit the description of these asian bred beckfordi. They are/were only about a half inch long, and had a red cast to them, but definitely not the red breeding dress that I have seen in pictures. Behavior wise, they were very calm, and hovered most of the time. The tank they are in is actually more of a catchall tank right now as I dont have a lot of room for more tanks. It has a turface substrate with a few plants, and sponge filter. Also there are several pots for some female A. baenschi that are waiting to be re-homed after being spurned by my male.

The only thing that comes to mind is the Hikari food. I have heard that if small fish such as this eat pellet food like this soon after it enters the water, that there is a chance that it could swell up and burst their stomachs. Is this a real possibility? should I have soaked the food first before putting it in the tank?

thanks for the help!

 

[JasonC]

So woke up this morning to the last of the pencilfish dead (2 days after the others) and TWO of the apistos dead also... now I am assuming disease... what is a good place to start treatment wise to make sure I dont loose the rest of the ladies in this tank?

Water params are pH7.2ish, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10. I will be doing a70 -80% PWC in a little bit.

 

[Mike Wise]

I have never seen wild N. beckfordi that small; usually they are over 1" / 2.5cm. Half-inch specimens should not show any red color. This all indicates that they are domestic-bred fish.

 

[JasonC]

Agree that they are domestic-bred. I did not think that they were wild, just not the specific Asian bred strain that Tom C was talking about.

I have never seen wild N. beckfordi that small; usually they are over 1" / 2.5cm. Half-inch specimens should not show any red color. This all indicates that they are domestic-bred fish.

 

[Mike Wise]

A ½" / 1 cm N. beckfordi that shows red almost certainly has been 'doctored' with hormones - all of the hallmarks of Asian-bred fish.

 

[JasonC]

A ½" / 1 cm N. beckfordi that shows red almost certainly has been 'doctored' with hormones - all of the hallmarks of Asian-bred fish.

Point taken on that. None the less, they are all dead now and are taking the Apistos I was holding in the tank with them... GRRR!!! One of these days I'm going to learn that a quarantine tank cannot be anything but a quarantine tank... holding tanks need to be different *sigh*

 

[Apistomaster]

I think you happened to buy a sickly group which may have only had a chance had they been quarantined, treated if necessary and above all, fed abundant amounts of live foods at first.
N. beckfordi is normally a very hardy species well suited for even beginning fish keepers.
Even so, I do not think any fault is with you but the source of the fish you bought.
I have bred N. beckfordi several times raising a few hundred fry to adults. They are the easiest of all the Nannostomus to propagate.
However, they are among the more aggressive Nannostomus species and not one I recommend as an Apistogramma dither fish. I think N. eques or N. harrisoni are among the best choices although N.marginatus is another good choice. N. beckfordi will eat fry where these other three normally do not.

 

[JasonC]

Thanks for both the vote of confidence and the suggestions on other more appropriate Nannostomus species to try. I just found out I may have a way to get some N. Mortenthaleri from a local breeder... what are your opinions on this species as a dither? I have also seen lots of recommendations for the N. Eques, but had heard somewhere that they were difficult because they could only fit BBS in their mouths?

I think you happened to buy a sickly group which may have only had a chance had they been quarantined, treated if necessary and above all, fed abundant amounts of live foods at first.
N. beckfordi is normally a very hardy species well suited for even beginning fish keepers.
Even so, I do not think any fault is with you but the source of the fish you bought.
I have bred N. beckfordi several times raising a few hundred fry to adults. They are the easiest of all the Nannostomus to propagate.
However, they are among the more aggressive Nannostomus species and not one I recommend as an Apistogramma dither fish. I think N. eques or N. harrisoni are among the best choices although N.marginatus is another good choice. N. beckfordi will eat fry where these other three normally do not.

 

[Mike Wise]

N. mortenthaleri is a beautiful, small pencilfish similar to but much more colorful than Dwarf Pencilfish (N. marginatus). N. mortenthaleri have a reputation for being very aggressive toward each other, but not other fish. N. eques will eat flake food, just crush the food. I've even seen them 'roll' a larger flake into a tube so they could swallow it; quite funny, really. Whichever pencilfish you choose, just add 2 or 3. Pencilfish are not one of the characiforms that needs to be in schools.

 

[Apistomaster]

Jason,
N. mortenthaleri may be the most aggressive species of all the Nannostomus.

If I were going to try one of the two new extra colorful Nannostomus I think it will be N. rubrocaudatus. I think they are more mild mannered and probably very similar in behavior to N. trifasciatus. I have tried N. mortenthaleri and I have decided to go with N. rubrocaudatus next time.
I have tried two groups of N. mortenthaleri. One was a group of only six and my second group was a dozen.
I greatly underestimated how much more space this species needs to diffuse their intraspecific aggression.