Bad Luck with the P.t. Lobes

[Orchid]

Thank you, Randall and Neil, for all your help and information. Sadly, when I turned on the light of the Lobe's tank this morning I found them both dead. The heater had malfunctioned and the tank's temp spiked up above ninety degrees. The pygmy gourami's are fine, but they can tolerate those high temps. Stupid heater :cry: I feel so sad/mad/ and stupid and have been sick to my stomache all day over this.

Half of me wants to quit this hobby! I had begun to fall in love with the West African cichlids, something I never thought I would do. Because of the high pH of the local water supply, all the lfs here stock the agressive Rift area African cichlids, so I never realized that the westies were so adorable. But these two Lobes were so dedicated to each other, there was never any nipping or fighting amongst them and when they realized they were both going after the same peice of food, they would back off and try to let the other go after it. I have never seen such polite behavior amongst cichlids before, even established mated pairs.

The other half of me wants to set up an empty 20 long I have and stock it with dwarf onion grass and anubias plants and try to find another pair of Lobes or one of the other taeniatus varieties I like. I lucked out when I came across this pair, the fish store I purchased them at is four hours away and I loved their color so much these two reasons made me attempt a westy species of cichlid. Does anyone know of any reliable online West African cichlid mailorder sources? I can't get any dwarf cichlids, be it south american or westies, from my lfs because they insist on keeping them in their tanks for at least a day before they sell them to me. This has never worked for me because the fish are so shocked by the huge pH change comming from the neutral to low pH of the distributor to the high pH of the retailer. I can't convince them to put the little fellows into a low pH tank and I have decided, for the fish's sake, not to order any low pH fish from the lfs anymore.

The checkerboard and Borelis are doing swell in my 55 gal. tank. I have even noticed that the discus don't hide as much with them around, weird, because I have dither fish in there for them. It seems as if a dominant male Boreli is emerging. Will the other Boreli male be ok in the planted 10 gal. pygmy gaurami tank that has a new heater?

 

[Randall]

Boreli male be ok in the planted 10 gal. pygmy gaurami tank that has a new heater?

Dear Orchid,

I am so sorry to hear about your bad heater experience. Unfortunately, sometimes even our very best efforts are dependant on the equipment that we use. Currently, there are two manufacturers that I know of that make titanum heaters. These heaters are made of metal, so there's no change for breaking glass tubes, can be preset at a desired temperature and shut off automatically when out of water. They can be a little more expensive than the more conventional glass heaters, but are worth it.

As for a source for wild West African cichlids, may I recommend Mr. Toyin Ojo whose website address is http://www.rehobothaquatics.com/index2.html. Toyin is a member of this forum, and those of us who have ordered fish and plants from him have had an excellent experience, especially yours truly. His Pelvicachromis taeniatus, for example, are not to be believed.

Yes, your borellii male should be okay in your planted 10-gallon pygmy tank.

Please don't let one very unfortunate experience that was not even your fault detract from your enjoyment of the hobby. Our hobby has so much to offer that it would be a shame if you did not continue.

All the best,

Randall Kohn

 

[Scooter]

Orchid,

I can understand your disappointment, but please don't let that discourage you from keeping dwarfs. As Randall alluded to, equipment failures happen to even the most experienced aquarists. I say grab that 20 long with renewed vigor and find you another pair of westies. Of course, it's easy for me to spend someone else's money, but there are some dwarfs out there just begging you to pick them up and give them a new home. Good luck!

 

[Randall]

West African Cichlids

Dear Orchid,

What is your name, anyway?

If you'd like to know more about "Westies," please go out and get yourself a copy of African Cichlids I, Cichlids from West Africaby Horst Linke & Dr. Wolfgang Staeck (Tetra-Press, ISBN 1-56465-166-5). This book is a little dated now, but is still the best English language reference that we have on the subject.

Good luck!

Randall Kohn

 

[Orchid]

You beat me to my next question, "What is a good book on westies?" It is hard trying to find a good book that is very informative on a specific subject.

Titanium heaters, huh? I never even gave them much thought. They don't just all of a sudden heat way, way up for no reason at all? That is what my faulty one did, I never adjusted it and it wasn't broken, it just went into overdrive. Stupid heater. I am pulling out my aquarium catalog to look them over. Besides, I need good, durable heaters for my reef tanks, I am always afraid a falling peice of live rock or an obnoxious tang will break my glass heater.

My name is Chris and I am now a confirmed P.t. enthusiast.

 

[Neil]

Chris,
Sorry to hear about that happening to such a great pair. Sounds like you are pulling back from the "Half of me wants to quit this hobby!" or else the other half is dominant! . Being a "confirmed P.t. enthusiast" can get you through some disappointments. I had the same thing happen this year with a breeding pair of Nanochromis Tranvestitus that I really liked. Since then, I have used Ebo Jager or Tronics on the more important tanks. I use a Tronics heater on my reef tank and it very safe, reliable and accurate.
As a side note, have you thought about a sump (refugium) for your reef tank so you don't have to worry about Tangs and falling rock? It has been very helpful for me.
I agree on looking for the L&S book. It is very good and will make you want more, more, more! So be strong.
I also agree on getting fish from Toyin, but you might also contact Steve Lundblad at Cichlid Exchange in Portland. He also has a store there that usually has a form or 2 of taeniatus. I got my first pair of Lobes from him years ago.
Good luck,
Neil

 

[Orchid]

Neil, I checked out the Cichlid exchange and they will sell to someone who lives farther than 100 miles from any of their fish store customers. I believe that is my case. I know the pet store I purchased the Lobes from orders from them, but I am not sure if they got this pair from them or not.

I do have a sump on my reef tank, actually it is more like an algal scrubber. Between the high water flow, overgrown mass of caulerpa, and myself rummaging around in there for just the right peice of excess lr that I must have for coral mounting or large lr propping, any glass heater is safer in the tank with the tang. But I really like the idea of a titanium heater, especially the shut off feature if the water level gets too low too quickly as it can in our hot summers.

From here on out I will only use Ebo Jagers or Visitherms (unless anyone has had bad experiences with Visitherms) when it comes to glass heaters. I will switch over any that are other brands.

I am in the process of setting up my 20 long for another pair of Lobes. I have already designed an aquascape for it and am ready to order the plants. I am building a hood for the tank. I figure after a month or two everything will be settled down and ready for the new pair.

 

[Neil]

Orchid,

I am in the process of setting up my 20 long for another pair of Lobes. I have already designed an aquascape for it and am ready to order the plants. I am building a hood for the tank. I figure after a month or two everything will be settled down and ready for the new pair.

Great, glad to hear it! Back on the horse after a fall. Way to go.

But I really like the idea of a titanium heater, especially the shut off feature if the water level gets too low too quickly as it can in our hot summers.

They have them at Pet Wharehouse (now Foster/Smith) for a good price and, for a little more, a digital readout of temp. Very cool.

Visitherms (unless anyone has had bad experiences with Visitherms)

No, there are good. The only difference between EJ and Visi is that EJ is thicker (less breakable glass) and can be taken completely out of the water without ill effects, which is great for someone like me that does huge waterchanges and forgets to unplug the heater.

Neil

 

[Orchid]

I've ordered the plants for the 20 long. They should be here this Friday. Mostly it is different sp. of Anubias-you can't go wrong with Anubias, some African bolbitis to grow on a peice of driftwood, and either some Vals or Dwarf water onions, I haven't decided which one to go in there for a back screen. I am going to grow Java Moss over the flowerpots so they don't stick out so much.

I just don't know who would be good dither fish for a pair of Lobes. I am thinking some Congo tetras, they are so lovely in a planted tank, especially when they mature. I love setting up new tanks, mostly it is the aquascaping. Will the Lobes need large, smooth rocks to lay eggs on like many of the So. American dwarves do?

 

[Neil]

Nope!
The are not a substrate spawner. They (as well as all other Pelvicachromis) are cave-brooders. They especially like to do some of the cave construction themselves. Your smooth rocks would likely only be beneficial for their roof, not floor. They will choose and clean a ceiling somewhere to lay the eggs on. If you supply them with a few caves that are either "caves" or structures of rock or wood that make caves (and leave them somewhat buried), they will move in and finish the job. I use a small overturned clay sauser with a small entrance knocked or cut out. They don't need alot of room under there, because they will do the follow-up excavation.
Remember though, that P.t."Lobe" come from especially soft, acidic water. This doesn't mean that you have to keep them in 5pH, but they will probably be happier in that kind of water, especially if they are wild.
I think Congo tetras, Phenacogrammus interruptus (? I think) are kind of big, but active and nice-looking. The fact that they are from West Africa is a plus. I have some Phenacogrammus urotaenia (don't know the common name, but a genus relative) as dithers and they are nice.
Good luck,
Neil

 

[Orchid]

Neil,
I use Flourite as a substrate for the plants, I had planned to put a thick layer of plain washed gravel over it because of its sharp edges. But if the pelvicachromis are diggers, will they get cut up by it if they dig down to the Flourite? I love how the plants respond to it, I mixed it into the gravel of my discus tank not realizing its sharp edges. All my cory cat's whiskers were cut off. It has been over a year and they've since returned, but I am trying not to repeat this mistake.

 

[Randall]

P. taeniatus "Lobe" Set up

Dear Chris,

Your Lobes and Flourite should be fine together. I wouldn't plant Valisneria though; they don't do well in soft, acidic water. Better to stick with the Anubias spp. and Crinum spp.

Since you seem to like them so much, I am now the proud owner of a pair of wild P. taeniatus "Lobe."

Thanks for the recommendation.

Randall Kohn

 

[Orchid]

Randall,

Good for you! The male may be the flashy one, but I think it is the female who is the real beauty. I love the way she is coppery orange- yellow with a purple tummy. I like subtle colors.

I had way more Flourite than I thought so I went ahead and used all of it for the substrate rather than do a split substrate. The plant place I ordered the plants from is pulling the plants today and they should be here tomarrow afternoon. It makes sense about the Val because they will increase the pH of water. Hmmm, all my tanks are soft and acidic...what to do, what to do? :? Now I need to figure out what to do to hide the back of the tank. Maybe a screen with java moss growing over it.

I forgot to filter more RO water and now I am impatiently awaiting each bucket to fill up so I can put it in my 20 long. I hope the filter can clear out the Flourite dust and the heater can heat up the substrate in time for the plants. Just have about five more gallons to go.

This is so much fun, I am even designing a double 20 long tank stand for more dwarf cichlids. I really like the 'Makoure'(sp?) P.t.'s. And I am sure there are more dwarfs, whether S.A. or African, that I really must have once I see them. If not, at least I will have mature, slow growing Anubias one day in these empty tanks, and that in itself is worth it.