agassizi or gephyra?

[Greg PL]

Hello,

Pls take a look at the following link:

http://www.apisto.pl/fa/viewtopic.php?t=1095
my best guess is A. agassizi "Belem", but the person I bought them from swore they are A. gephyra. they were bred in Czech Rep. but without any "blood improvements", as I was told.
Ani ideas?

 

[fishgeek]

i would have thought aggie, though id is not my forte

andrew

 

[Tea]

Id ?

Hello Greg, from the pictures you have there it looks like it is a agassizi pair because the male has a very pointed lanceolate caudal fin and usually gephyras don't have as much color in there caudal fin. I have similar fish sold to me as apistogramma agassizi Rio tapajos, they are probaly aggie belem though, i will try to get some pics if I can fond where I have saved them.

 

[Apistt_ed]

I don't know... I'd say it is an old gephyra male due to the fact that it doesn't have the same caudal patterns associated with agassizi (the distinct white margins seen on most aggies). It looks like it does have a speckling on the caudal like that of gephyra also. I have seen a few A. gephyra that look similar to your fish but It may be easier to Id with a better picture to be 100% sure. as it stands, I personally believe it is A.gephyra just because the picture of the male doesn't show the typical margin patterns as it is in A. agassizi and it does look alot like a blue varient of gephyra that I've seen only once. best wishes and cheers. john

 

[Mike Wise]

Probaby A. agassizii, but would need better photos to be certain.

 

[Greg PL]

Thanks a lot for help. I would also lean toward A. agassizi, but the seller was so convinced that I decided to double check with you all.

Probaby A. agassizii, but would need better photos to be certain.

Mike, where would you look to be certain? Some special markings on the female? Tail of the male?
I was not gifted with photography skills and don't have a real camera, but I'll try to shoot some more and post them here.

Greg

 

[Mike Wise]

Greg,

I think that I have discussed the differences before, but it is a good idea to repeat it here.

A. agassizii is a highly polymorphic & polychromatic 'super-species'. In my opinion it represents a series of closely related populations in the active process of becoming separate species. A. gephyra is one of these species. A. gephyra can be separated from other A. agassizii forms by differences in scales, color & shape of the unpaired fins, and the appearence of the lateral band on displaying fish. Those who attended my talk in Larvik, Norway last Sunday were shown these differences. Tom has a video of the talk (thanks for the fish, they all arrived safely home except 1 A. sp. Abacaxis male who lost all the water in his bottle

; I must have crossed the threads on the bottle & lid

).

Anyway, the differences in scalation: other agassizii-complex forms have some scales on the breast region . A. gephyra, like A. pertensis, does not. This is why Dr. Kullander considered it a bridge species between the agassizii- and pertensis-species-complexes.

Unpaired fins of A. gephyra differ as follows: The dorsal fin of male A. gephyra are always trimmed in red. Some, but not most, male agassizii show this red trim, too. The tips of the anal & dorsal fins of A. gephyra are shorter & more blunt than on agassizii males. The caudal fin is also shorter & blunter than that of A. agassizii males (the extensions are most notable on older, fully mature males). The color & pattern of markings is highly variable on both A. agassizii & A. gephyra, but the white submarginal band is usually very narrow on A. gephya. Spots & stripes appear in the interior part of the caudal of both species.

Lateral band: On displaying A. gephyra the lateral band is quite pronounced as a black band from the eye to just in front of the lateral spot. The lateral band then continues as a highly visible band back into the caudal fin. On fish in neutral moods the lateral band has slight zigzag margins. On displaying A. agassizii the lateral band is visible from the eye to the back edge of the gill cover. From there to the caudal peduncle the lateral band is relatively indistinct. It becomes visible again on the caudal fin. The only dark part of the lateral band on the flanks is the lateral spot.

I must add that even knowing about these differences, I still have problems with photos of some fish that come from the mid-lower Rio Negro that show a mix of the above features. Because of this I cannot actually give a species name for some of these species.