A. Borelli & Tannins

[Don cheech]

Hey someone mentioned A. Borelli was a clear water fish so would it be not recommended to add tannins by way of driftwood and almond leaves thus darkening the water.

 

[MacZ]

Clearwater does not mean there are no humic substances. The colour is not a primary part of the definition. Electric conductivity and ion concentrations are the relevant factors. pH and colouration come way after those. There are waterbodies in South America that look like blackwater but are clearwater when going by the parameters and vice versa. Humic substances are never wrong.

Do you use RO as a base or tap? If tap it's irrelevant anyhow.

 

[Don cheech]

Clearwater does not mean there are no humic substances. The colour is not a primary part of the definition. Electric conductivity and ion concentrations are the relevant factors. pH and colouration come way after those. There are waterbodies in South America that look like blackwater but are clearwater when going by the parameters and vice versa. Humic substances are never wrong.

Do you use RO as a base or tap? If tap it's irrelevant anyhow.

Tap

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Tap

It depends a little bit on where you live, but for 99% of us our tap water is much harder and more salts rich than the water that Apistogramma spp. live in.

I live in the S. of the UK, and we have good quality tap water (from a deep limestone aquifer) but it is about 18dGH / 18 dKH and 750 microS., no amount of addition (of anything) would make it suitable for Apistogramma keeping.

I use rain-water in the tanks, but even that is too hard and too "salty" to breed black-water Apistogramma spp. in.

cheers Darrel

 

[MacZ]

Tap

Newbie

Hi, l am new to this forum and just obsessed with wanting to have a pair of a apistogramma. l have a 75 gallon nano tank and spent a lot of money on a pair of apistos. l put them in and they never did well from the beginning and died a few days later. l gave up on getting anymore because I...

apistogramma.com

I remember! Sorry, that's why it would have been better to stay in one thread.

So... if diluted a bit more maybe not the worst water, although I find the KH unusually low for the GH and pH. @dw1305 Darrel, you're better when it comes to chemistry. Any ideas?

 

[Don cheech]

Hi all,

It depends a little bit on where you live, but for 99% of us our tap water is much harder and more salts rich than the water that Apistogramma spp. live in.

I live in the S. of the UK, and we have good quality tap water (from a deep limestone aquifer) but it is about 18dGH / 18 dKH and 750 microS., no amount of addition (of anything) would make it suitable for Apistogramma keeping.

I use rain-water in the tanks, but even that is too hard and too "salty" to breed black-water Apistogramma spp. in.

cheers Darrel

Yes that’s true that’s why I want to put driftwood and then see where it goes and then maybe almond leaves

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Yes that’s true that’s why I want to put driftwood and then see where it goes and then maybe almond leaves

Yes, but you can't effectively soften water (that it isn't already soft) by adding things.

I think of it a bit like making a cup of coffee, once you've brewed the coffee you can't get back to water by adding milk and sugar, if that makes sense, you have to start again.

Same with hard water, it is only really by using an RO unit you can remove solutes. If you start with a blank slate you can make "designer water", but it has to be a blank (or nearly blank) slate to start with.

cheers Darrel

 

[Don cheech]

Hi all,

Yes, but you can't effectively soften water (that it isn't already soft) by adding things.

I think of it a bit like making a cup of coffee, once you've brewed the coffee you can't get back to water by adding milk and sugar, if that makes sense, you have to start again.

Same with hard water, it is only really by using an RO unit you can remove solutes. If you start with a blank slate you can make "designer water", but it has to be a blank (or nearly blank) slate to start with.

cheers Darrel

So do you think l can successfully keep A. Borelli with hard water my current 75 has gh 12 and kh 2 do you think that will be a problem?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

So do you think l can successfully keep A. Borelli with hard water my current 75 has gh 12 and kh 2 do you think that will be a problem?

Possibly keep, but not breed.

I'm still a bit concerned about those measurements. You can have dGH and dKH decoupled, if you start with RO water etc. but in nearly all naturally occurring water they are similar in value, because limestone (CaCO3) provides 1 : 1 dGH to dKH. The derivations of dGH etc. are all on our predecessor site <"Larry Frank - water hardness, the Krib">.

That is why I like conductivity (ppm TDS) as a measurement, it doesn't tell you anything about the water composition, but it cuts straight to the chase. If you have more than ~300 microS your water is probably too hard (extrapolated from the ionic strength) for successful keeping.

cheers Darrel

 

[Don cheech]

Hi all,

Possibly keep, but not breed.

I'm still a bit concerned about those measurements. You can have dGH and dKH decoupled, if you start with RO water etc. but in nearly all naturally occurring water they are similar in value, because limestone (CaCO3) provides 1 : 1 dGH to dKH. The derivations of dGH etc. are all on our predecessor site <"Larry Frank - water hardness, the Krib">.

That is why I like conductivity (ppm TDS) as a measurement, it doesn't tell you anything about the water composition, but it cuts straight to the chase. If you have more than ~300 microS your water is probably too hard (extrapolated from the ionic strength) for successful keeping.

cheers Darrel

Thanks for all the info