My Barlowi "mouthbrooder" family

[chris1932]

I am up to my third generation of Barlowi in less than a year. I have been able to get some good pictures in the growout tank, now home to two pairs tending spawns.

 

[ste12000]

Nice fish.. third picture down shows some interesting female colouration? is she always covered with these black markings?? do the fry inherit them, and whats the water conditions? Good work!!

 

[chris1932]

I had hoped that someone would point that out and ask. There is one male and one female out of the group of 8 wild adults that I purchased. So far none of the offspring has inherited the trait but there are quite a few growing up.

 

[ste12000]

Interesting? Just the one like that!! I have seen other pictures of the same markings but on males, i was told it was due to using hard alkaline water? You have fry so am i right in assuming your water is Soft and acidic?

 

[Mike Wise]

The dark spots are due to a pathogen that usually is not harmful to the fish. Some say it is due to a virus; other due to a parsite. Whatever it is it seems to stay with the fish all of its life, and is not passed on to the next generation.

 

[chris1932]

Yes my water is soft. I have softening, dealkylizing, RO, mixed bed DI tanks, and a filter housing that is filled with saphnum peat, peat pellets, alder cones, and almond leaves. So I can start with any water type and blend up from there. The DI tanks and blackwater filter are newer as far as the system goes.

Mike as usual you have answered my question. 1000 thanks.

Chris

 

[Microman]

Theres alot of conflicting information regarding this black marking.

Ive seen it on numerous occasions on A barlowi(males and females)and this is a species that does seem particularly susceptible. I was also told that the markings were due to disturbance of the calcium metabolism which developes when a fish has been maintained in calcium rich water. Romer also indicates that the markings might be attributed to this in CA1...
If this is the case when re-introduced to softer water the black markings do not fade.
I personally have not seen this in recently imported,wildcaught A barlowi where soft water is the norm but have seen it develop in the aquaria.

Mikes pathogen theory also sounds plausible and is the theory that i prefer...

Would like to find out more info about this if at all possible.Has anybody looked into it in detail Mike?
Mark...

 

[Mike Wise]

I have had black patches on wildcaught A. cacatuoides. As far as I know they were in relatively soft water all of the time - well maybe in harder water for a few days at a wholesaler, but not long enough to have a chemical imbalance problem. Most people that told me of this problem - on characids as well as cichlids - reported that it was present on wild fish. It isn't transmitted to other fish in aquariums nor to offspring. I don't think anyone has done any serious study on this phenomenon.

 

[apistobob]

I got pretty excited about ten years ago when I found a group of similarly spotted wild cacatuoides. They were really quite interesting and I tried to breed for the characteristic using father/daughter and multi-generation sibling crosses. None of the subsequent fish produced the spotting. I was a little disappointed because it would be an interesting strain.

Bob

 

[Ttw]

I have collected cacatuoides and agassizi that had these black spots. They were on the fish when they came out of the stream and had not been in any collection tanks or other water. I kept one of these cacs in a community tank with a A. wilhelmi and the wilhelmi developed a couple of these spots. None of the non-cichlids did however. Must have some degree of being contagious to certain fish.
Tom

 

[Zack Wilson]

I've observed this on a few different species of imported fish. A. barlowi and Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis have been the most notable and consistent. Pretty much every importation of pucallpaensis I've gotten has had this present in larger concentrations and over a significant percentage of the group. I've noticed the condition worsen in the aquarium, and in most circumstances it seems to proliferate during stressful conditions, and mainly with fish already affected. In none of the cases has hard water been a possible explanation.

 

[Apistomaster]

Hi Zack and All,
I have noticed these black spots among wild Apistogrammoides pucallpapensis as well, more than on other wild Apistogramma spp. but it is not exactly uncommon amongst some specimens of these as well.
The exact cause would be beyond the scope of most of our abilities to determine but this type of pigment formation around infection sites is pretty common among wild SA Characins, as has been pointed out. There are a variety of pigment alterations that are directly related to infected Characins like Hemigrammus armstrongi and Hyphessobrycon bifasciatus where they develop reflective guanin crystals in their epidermal layers which gives them their characteristic reflective gold coloration. The extent varies from specimen to specimen and is not genetically transmitted to subsequent tank raised generations. Not surprised that many wild caught Cichlids show these reactions. I have seen similar black spots among wild discus. Makes you wonder how many bugs these wild fish have to contend with but the formation of pigments does seem to be related to their immune systems' responses trying to isolate the infections.

 

[Olorin]

Great pictures, now I can finally be sure that I have Barlowi in my tank! Thank you!

As for the spotting I now recall that all of my wildcaught Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis had it to some degree. All of them died as you can read about in the "spinning and dying" thread. I am very glad to read that is seems more or less a fact that it is not transferred to the next generation as all I have left of the Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis is a group of 3 month old fry. Will be interesting to see how they develop.

 

[Rolo]

Hi Mike,

Most people that told me of this problem - on characids as well as cichlids - reported that it was present on wild fish. It isn't transmitted to other fish in aquariums nor to offspring. I don't think anyone has done any serious study on this phenomenon.

Usually I would agree. But at my A. barlowi, the spots were transmitted from the parents to their spring. So it's obviously possible.

regards,
Rolo

 

[Ruki]

Hi Mike,



Usually I would agree. But at my A. barlowi, the spots were transmitted from the parents to their spring. So it's obviously possible.

regards,
Rolo

I've to agree. I had 2 wild females of A. baenschi with those black blotches. Now I have all females of A. baenschi with them and "it" attacked also A. gibbiceps males(they were in the same tank for short period of time).

 

[Greg PL]

A year or more ago I though the answer is clear, and it was probably also delivered here, too. There was supposed to be a parasite with complex lifecycle involving 3 or more "feeders". since there were SA birds and snails in the loop - the parasite had no possibility to spread and breed in our fish tanks. now it seems to be different. Always something new

now, back to A. barlowii - I have ~30 of offsprings survivors of my "aquaristicaly deprived period". they are a year old, but not fully grown. some bigger (4-5cm TL) show male characteristics, while the smaller specimens are a mistery. still, at least some of them should show the black edges of ventral fins indicating females. I haven't noticed even one.

are they especially prone to skewed sex ratios? is temperature or pH more influencial?

 

[jose_vogel]

Back to the dark blotches again.

Every time I saw dark blotches, finally they spread to all the Apistos I ´ve in that tank (allways the same specie).

Although I think it´s a parasite, the fact that with A LOT of water changes, they begin to fade (or at least, to stop), makes me wonder if could be a virus (water changes "dilutes" the virus in the water).

Excuse me for my poor scientific language, I do write better in spanish.