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Wild A. pantalone and juveniles F1

Imrahil

Member
5 Year Member
Some pics of wild A. pantalone and young F1. They reproduced in very acidic (pH < 4), soft and relatively fresh water (24,5 °C). The wild couple is full of black spots (trematods) but these are very interesting fishes.

Wild female
femelle3.jpg

Wild male
male3.jpg

maletete2.jpg

Young F1 (3,5 months)
maleok.jpg

2.jpg

IMG_5519.jpg
 

Imrahil

Member
5 Year Member
Hi,
Could you please help me to identify characters that may allow sexing young A. pantalone (3-4 cm) ?

In peculiar
- can I use the color of the anal fin as an indicator (blue for males; non-colored for females) ?

- can I use the feature of the first two spines of the dorsal fin? In adults, females exhibit full black spines when it is not the case in males.

Thanks in advance :)
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
At this size they are hard to sex. The juveniles with blue anals most likely are males, but some of the fish with non-colored anals might be undeveloped males, too. At this size I would expect all of the fish to show some black on the first 2 dorsal spines. I think you need to give them more time. I would also separate the juveniles with the blue anals from the fish with non-colored anal. If there are males with non-colored anals, they will show the blue more quickly. Breeding A. pantalone is not an easy feat. Congratulations!
 

Josh

Administrator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Beautiful fish! Thanks for sharing your photos. If you get a chance, upload them to our media gallery!
 

Imrahil

Member
5 Year Member
Hygrocotyle, Pistia stratoites, java mouss and also Anubia and Microsorum, both these later growing not very well

 

Ekona

Active Member
5 Year Member
The F1 look very nice - great work in raising them up. At the temp you raised them at, what ratio of M/F emerged in group F1 group?
Love the subtle rainbow color on the dorsal fin of the male and the patterning of the female as well. Thanks for sharing.
 

Ekona

Active Member
5 Year Member
24.5 C = ~76 F so if you would lower the temp during the first 6 weeks or so of rearing the fry- more females would be produced? I'm wondering this based on Dr. Uwe Romer's presentation describing temp as being one of the primary factors in determining the gender of fishes.
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Sex ratio is what one would expect at this temperature. Lowering the temperature even lower would probably produce many more females than males.
 

Imrahil

Member
5 Year Member
I'm finally lucky since there were finally 7 males and 6 females.

A first fry from a pair of F1 I isolated
NL2.jpg

NL3.jpg

fem1.jpg

IMG_8156.jpg

IMG_8078.jpg


And an episodic mouthbreeding. A behaviour I did not know in this species.
fem1.jpg


fem2.jpg
 

Imrahil

Member
5 Year Member
The mouthbreeding was indeed episodic. I have observed it just during 2 or 3 days in the tank.
 

rr16

Active Member
5 Year Member
They are act6ually mouthbrooding as opposed to just moving the fry around with their mouths? That's interesting! Also, the black spots? Are these common occurences due to a trematode then? I didn't realise this. Do you know which species/genus of trematode and what life-cycle stage it is?
 

Imrahil

Member
5 Year Member
I don't know about these trematodes. The wild pair was fool of these black spots but the pair F1 which reproduces now at home is free of these.
 
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