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Wild A. pantalone and juveniles F1

Discussion in 'Husbandry / Breeding' started by Imrahil, Mar 22, 2014.

  1. Imrahil

    Imrahil Member 5 Year Member

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    Some pics of wild A. pantalone and young F1. They reproduced in very acidic (pH < 4), soft and relatively fresh water (24,5 °C). The wild couple is full of black spots (trematods) but these are very interesting fishes.

    Wild female
    femelle3.jpg
    Wild male
    male3.jpg
    maletete2.jpg
    Young F1 (3,5 months)
    maleok.jpg
    2.jpg
    IMG_5519.jpg
    danbb, S.k, MickeM and 1 other person like this.
  2. Imrahil

    Imrahil Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi,
    Could you please help me to identify characters that may allow sexing young A. pantalone (3-4 cm) ?

    In peculiar
    - can I use the color of the anal fin as an indicator (blue for males; non-colored for females) ?

    - can I use the feature of the first two spines of the dorsal fin? In adults, females exhibit full black spines when it is not the case in males.

    Thanks in advance :)
  3. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    At this size they are hard to sex. The juveniles with blue anals most likely are males, but some of the fish with non-colored anals might be undeveloped males, too. At this size I would expect all of the fish to show some black on the first 2 dorsal spines. I think you need to give them more time. I would also separate the juveniles with the blue anals from the fish with non-colored anal. If there are males with non-colored anals, they will show the blue more quickly. Breeding A. pantalone is not an easy feat. Congratulations!
  4. Imrahil

    Imrahil Member 5 Year Member

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    Thanks Mike
  5. Josh

    Josh Administrator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Beautiful fish! Thanks for sharing your photos. If you get a chance, upload them to our media gallery!
  6. danbb

    danbb Member

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    Awesome fish! What plants supports that Ph?
  7. Imrahil

    Imrahil Member 5 Year Member

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    Hygrocotyle, Pistia stratoites, java mouss and also Anubia and Microsorum, both these later growing not very well

  8. Imrahil

    Imrahil Member 5 Year Member

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    Recent pics of the young F1.

    IMG_7671.jpg

    IMG_7682.jpg

    Pairs are now ready to be isolated.
    couple.jpg
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  9. Ekona

    Ekona Active Member 5 Year Member

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    The F1 look very nice - great work in raising them up. At the temp you raised them at, what ratio of M/F emerged in group F1 group?
    Love the subtle rainbow color on the dorsal fin of the male and the patterning of the female as well. Thanks for sharing.
  10. Imrahil

    Imrahil Member 5 Year Member

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    The sex ratio is not optimum, since there are twice more males than females.
  11. Ekona

    Ekona Active Member 5 Year Member

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    24.5 C = ~76 F so if you would lower the temp during the first 6 weeks or so of rearing the fry- more females would be produced? I'm wondering this based on Dr. Uwe Romer's presentation describing temp as being one of the primary factors in determining the gender of fishes.
  12. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Sex ratio is what one would expect at this temperature. Lowering the temperature even lower would probably produce many more females than males.
  13. Imrahil

    Imrahil Member 5 Year Member

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    I'm finally lucky since there were finally 7 males and 6 females.

    A first fry from a pair of F1 I isolated
    NL2.jpg
    NL3.jpg
    fem1.jpg
    IMG_8156.jpg
    IMG_8078.jpg

    And an episodic mouthbreeding. A behaviour I did not know in this species.
    fem1.jpg

    fem2.jpg
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  14. Imrahil

    Imrahil Member 5 Year Member

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    The mouthbreeding was indeed episodic. I have observed it just during 2 or 3 days in the tank.
  15. rr16

    rr16 Active Member 5 Year Member

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    They are act6ually mouthbrooding as opposed to just moving the fry around with their mouths? That's interesting! Also, the black spots? Are these common occurences due to a trematode then? I didn't realise this. Do you know which species/genus of trematode and what life-cycle stage it is?
  16. Imrahil

    Imrahil Member 5 Year Member

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    I don't know about these trematodes. The wild pair was fool of these black spots but the pair F1 which reproduces now at home is free of these.