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white stuff on Mesonauta mirificus fins

anewbie

Well-Known Member
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1,374
I'm seeing some odd white stuff on the festivium fins; i don't think it is cotton wool or straight fungus but i am a bit concern because on one of the 7 there seems to be some damage (decay); tried to get a picture but the aquarium is 450 gallon (thick glass and quite wide so getting to raise fins and be close enough to the front to get a picture is tricky):
festy.jpgfesty2.jpg


Rough water parameters: ec is around 140-150; i dont' trust the ph reading but it shows 6.6 temp is 78; nitrate is below 10. water change is via drip system that is 2 gallon per hour with chemistry around ec 110-115 - kh 2 gh 3 (i mix 50% tap and 50% ro). So new water addition is approx 48 gallons a day (10%). No new fish have been added in the past month. Total population is approx:
7 festy
5 angels
13 clowns (largest is 6 1/2 inches)
4 yoyo
12 zebra loach
15 hemiodus gracillis
8 pleco (L204 and L128 and 2 bn)
20 serpae
and 2 black ghost knife (largest is around 3 1/2 to 4 inches and smaller one is around 2 inch)
-
probably too many fishes for a 450...

Any thoughts if this is serious or if time is the cure. And no there is almost 0 chance i could catch them - id need 6 feet long arms.
 

MacZ

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2,984
Location
Germany
Looks like some opportunistic bacteria. Up the waterchanges and take the time to observe the ranks of the Mesonauta. Likely it's due to social stress.

And yes, overstocked.
 

anewbie

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1,374
Looks like some opportunistic bacteria. Up the waterchanges and take the time to observe the ranks of the Mesonauta. Likely it's due to social stress.

And yes, overstocked.
How overstocked - i mean how much - i mean is there a simple solution (such as remove a single group to bring it in line); hard for me to judge with an aquarium this large.

The aquarium is 10 ft long 4 ft wide and 2 ft high - closer to 550 gallons.
 
Last edited:

Apistoguy52

Active Member
Messages
284
Anyone else think the WC regiment is lacking? 48 gallons a day of drip in/flow through nets about 24 gallons a day of WC after we account for new water loss. 30-35% weekly WC in an overstocked aquarium seems insufficient
 

anewbie

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Messages
1,374
Anyone else think the WC regiment is lacking? 48 gallons a day of drip in/flow through nets about 24 gallons a day of WC after we account for new water loss. 30-35% weekly WC in an overstocked aquarium seems insufficient
So there are three issues: First is the water change not sufficient; second is the tank overstocked and if so what would need to be removed to bring it to an acceptable level and three the effectiveness of the drip system. I think someone claimed it was approx 80% effective so 19 gallons a day but i didn't validate the math. However I will note that i inject the new water in the bottom and old water is siphon from the top. I will also note that the sump turnover rate is approx 6 to 7x an hour; so the new water should be getting well mixed. That begs the question what should the rate be without wasting excessive amount of water. For the immediate issue i went ahead and up-ed i to 4 gallons an hour but can reduce it to 3 or 2.5 if those are reasonable options. Going higher than 4 is probably possible but difficult (2 gallon drippers seem to be the normal max).

As for the stocking it really is hard for me to judge if it is over stocked or how over stocked so comments in that area would be helpful.

I can do an 80 or 100 gallon quick water change one day next week - and i did measure the nitrate level this morning and it is a bit higher than i would like (around 6 or 7; somewhere between 5 and 10).
 

MacZ

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2,984
Location
Germany
How overstocked - i mean how much - i mean is there a simple solution (such as remove a single group to bring it in line); hard for me to judge with an aquarium this large.
Space-wise mostly. I'd remove the Pterophyllum and at least one species of loach. Maybe 2-3 more species aswell.

Anyone else think the WC regiment is lacking? 48 gallons a day of drip in/flow through nets about 24 gallons a day of WC after we account for new water loss. 30-35% weekly WC in an overstocked aquarium seems insufficient
I agree.
 

Apistoguy52

Active Member
Messages
284
I can do an 80 or 100 gallon quick water change one day next week - and i did measure the nitrate level this morning and it is a bit higher than i would like (around 6 or 7; somewhere between 5 and 10).
That would be a good start. In my opinion, a tank of nearly 600 gallons (by dimension 10x4x2) normally stocked would need a weekly 300 gallon water change, or 600ish gallons of drip in/flow through. Overstocked….I just don’t think you can change enough water to mitigate. Been there, done that, while 300% weekly water changes were effective in controlling illness, it was not enough to prevent stunting and damage from aggression IME
 

anewbie

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1,374
That would be a good start. In my opinion, a tank of nearly 600 gallons (by dimension 10x4x2) normally stocked would need a weekly 300 gallon water change, or 600ish gallons of drip in/flow through. Overstocked….I just don’t think you can change enough water to mitigate. Been there, done that, while 300% weekly water changes were effective in controlling illness, it was not enough to prevent stunting and damage from aggression IME
Well i'm just perplexed by the overstocking. I mean Keeping 7 clown in a 100 gallon tank and 7 festum in 100 gallon tank and 5 angels and with 12 more loaches (non clown) in a 100 gallon and you have 3/4 of my stocking in 300-400 gallon; that still leaves 200 gallon; in terms of space 4x2 is 8 sqft (100 gallon); and 10x4 is 40sqft so 5x the space. I'm not disagreeing it is overstocked - i'm just trying to figure out what went wrong and how to bring things in-line. The festum are around 4 years old so they will age out in 6 years; and the other (non clown loaches) will age out in around 5 years (this presume 10 year stated for most of these species is accurate); removing the angels if probably feasible - but that is only 5 fishes and visibly the angels are the least of the issue with regards to aggression. My honest evaluation is actually removing fishes beyond the angels will be difficult unless i want to go scuba diving.
 

MacZ

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2,984
Location
Germany
If it helps you: From my point of view the overstocking is more of an overcrowding, especially due to territoriality concerning the cicjlids and the sheer urge to keep moving for the loaches. (Unless yours are overfed and lazy always hanging out.)
 

anewbie

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Messages
1,374
If it helps you: From my point of view the overstocking is more of an overcrowding, especially due to territoriality concerning the cicjlids and the sheer urge to keep moving for the loaches. (Unless yours are overfed and lazy always hanging out.)
The older angels (a pair) take approx 1 foot corner in the back; the festum spend most of their time looking up and floating (I presume for insects); kind of weird at first i thought they died and were just floating. There has been some aggression with one specific festum (not attack per sey; but he turns very dark and raises his fin - at first i thought it was related to breeding but i never seen a partner); the loaches are the biggest problem - the cichild don't know how to respond to them - they dont' harm the cichild but they will at time (best description - sniff them in an annoying fashion); and they don't know how to respond - this probably hurts them health wise esp when they are trying to sleep. They do it more with the angles than festum. Anyway i've upped the water turnover from 2 to 4 gph and will do a water change and will look into how i can reduce the stocking. Certainly won't add anythign else until a few fishes age out or die. I also turned on the uv filter.
 

anewbie

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Messages
1,374
I think it has mostly cleared up - i did the water change, turned on uv, and increase daily drip system. After about 3 weeks i fed the festivum some of their favorite pellets mixed with kaniplex - one of them is a bit worse than the other 6 which is why i did the kaniplex - it has something on the side - wound or something else but it seems to be healing up. During this period nothing has died in the aquarium so i think it is mostly a done deal at this point - though i'm watching that spot on the side closely when i feed them. They aren't exactly human friendly fishes so they only come near me when they want something (food) - they spend most of their time floating around vertical watching the surface for bugs which is kind of neat but confuses the angels.
 

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