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Which one should I choose?

Discussion in 'Apistogramma' started by bbetta, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    Hello everyone! It's been a while since my last post...
    I've decided to get back to our beloved Apistogramma again!
    I'm planning to give them my ~20g (60cm*30cm*40cm). I have kept with success a trio of A. Borelli before in the same tank. At this moment 9 neon tetras live in the there ( I'd like to increase their number at 10-12 so they feel safer, if possible). I really like A. Baenschi, A. Panduro and A. Viejita. Which of these species could live more comfortably in the dimensions above? The tank is densely planted with caves and the water is 90% RO. I wil post a pic soon...

    Tell me what you think. Which is the best choice?

    Regards,
    Billy
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  2. Josh

    Josh Administrator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Welcome back!
    I'd go with A. viejita personally. I would think they would do well. Can't wait to see some pics!
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  3. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    Thanks for the quick reply!
    Panduros get bigger than the others so I guess I should forget them... Is there a specific reason you choose viejita over baenschi? I could buy a pair or maybe a trio?
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  4. Josh

    Josh Administrator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    I chose them because I like the way they look more than baenschi! ;) :)
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  5. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    They are both great looking fish indeed! Viejita's shape looks a bit like Borellii's, Baenschi on the other side looks like Panduro. Here in Greece we mostly get fish from Singapore's farms, but their quality isn't good. I have access to an lfs that imports fish from European farms, which are considered to be of top quality . I'll see if they have both available to order and which color forms they have.

    What about their behavior? Is any of these two species proven to be more aggressive than the other? Should I purchase a pair or I could house a trio?

    P.S. I hope I'll upload photos tomorrow! :)
    Thanks,
    Billy
  6. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Singapore "A. viejita" are almost certainly a colorful form of A. macmasteri. I, too, would choose this species because it is more adaptable to water values. A. baenschi and A. panduro are members of the nijsseni-group. They are more 'choosy' about mates. If not compatible, one of the 2 fish usually dies a violent death.

    If you plan to breed your apistos, your Neon Tetras will probably eat most of the fry. Otherwise they make a good community.
  7. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    Thanks for the reply Mike!
    So, are you suggesting there is a big chance a Baenschi pair won't make a bond? That's too bad, they have started to grow on me:(... Because I have a small tank I can only buy a pair/trio and such fish don't come easily in Greece.
    I assume Borellii's behaviour is different, my previous male mated with all three females that were with him, at the same time.
    I also like Trifasciata but they have many years to make an appearance in our LFS.
    Within the next days I will have a list of all available species for order, but I doubt I'll see something that I like more than Baenschi.
    I know Neon Tetras could eat most of the fry, but that is something I'll deal with when my fish come home and finally breed. If I find it necessary I will remove them and add Ember Tetras (Hyphessobrycon Amandae) which have proven to be harmless.

    Thanks,
    Billy
    :)
  8. ErtyJr

    ErtyJr Active Member

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    Yes, fish in the nijsseni group have a reputation for killing the mate you choose for them, if they don't think you are a good matchmaker. You can get lucky and get a good match or get a completely incompatible pair.

    If I was you I would still go with A. baenschi, as I think the females are absolutely stunning when in breeding dress.

    If you go that route be certain to add plenty of hiding places, and if possible lots of leaf litter. It makes for an excellent retreat for a heavily chased Apistogramma.
    bbetta likes this.
  9. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    If you like A. baenschi then try them. I'd buy at least 2 pairs and sell the 2 fish that don't bond. Since this is not a breeding tank, maybe 2 males different species might be an option.
  10. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    Again, thanks for your replies, I really appreciate it.
    I surely want to breed my fish.. There's nothing better than that! So I am not going to buy 2 males. I'm still waiting for that stock list to come:mad:, that's why I don't trouble myself with the selection at this time. Buying 2 pairs will be expensive, but even if I bought them I find it difficult that someone would want to buy the two fish that didn't make it and got bullied, stressed etc. Till I get the list in my hands, take a look at my tank and 2 of my favourite fish that I've kept there. Tell me what you think.:rolleyes:

    1.jpg

    Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi ╬ťale Singapore Strain.
    2.jpg
    Apistogramma Borellii Male French Strain
    3.JPG
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
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  11. ErtyJr

    ErtyJr Active Member

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    That is a gorgeous borellii! I love him. Was that image edited or is he really purple?
  12. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    The Borellii you see in my profile pic is the same fish. The picture I uploaded was taken in blackwater conditions. he always looked like that in blackwater.
  13. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Have you bred apistos in this tank? With 9 - 12 Neons in the same tank, you will probably lose most of your fry to predation. Do you have another tank for a grow-out tank? If all you want are 5 - 10 fry that grow to sexible size, then this tank should work. Otherwise you will need to raise the juveniles somewhere else. Some things to think about.
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  14. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    Yes, I've bred Apistogramma in this tank, but without any Neon. I also have a grow out tank, set up with your own instructions, when I tried to breed A.Borellii a couple years ago. When I finally order my new Apistos, they may take more than a month to arrive. So I don't worry about the survival rate of the fry, as I always have the option to sell/remove the Neons or move the fry and raise it separately. :)

    There's a chance I'll just give Agassizii a try, if I won't be able to find anything fancier. I know they don't belong in the nijsseni group, but do they show similar behavior? I guess I can house only a pair in my quarters?


    Thanks
    Billy
  15. ErtyJr

    ErtyJr Active Member

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    I personally find fish in the agassizzi group to be easier than the nijsseni group, but not as easy to pair as those from the regani. But all fish are individuals and can act different than expected. For instance my wild caught A. sp. abacaxis spawned for me yesterday and the female is now guarding eggs. I have only owned them for 1 and 1/2 weeks and they came straight to me from the wild.

    Where as my cacatuoides pair who have given me many successful spawns within days of being reintroduced to each other have been together for a little more than a week and are just bickering after the first few days of courting behavior. May have to pull them apart and fatten em up again if they don't spawn soon.

    I just lucked out I suppose!

    And yes I would not go more than a pair in a 20g. A trio is possible if you plan on removing the male after spawns, but if this is a tank you want your fish to live in full time I would not go more than 1 pair.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  16. M1dzj3T

    M1dzj3T Member

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    When I started with my panduro pair they didn't bond, the male chased my female around a whole tank with dimensions of 100*40(bottom) I then took the female out and put her in a smaller tank and left her there for a week to make her own territory. Then I moved the male to the smaller tank with the female, and they bonded right away.

    unfortunately i have lost this pair. but gotten a baenschi pair instead and they bonded instantly.
  17. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    If I decide to buy a A. Baenschi pair I will make sure I have the quarantine ready. As I see it I may try my luck with A. Agassizii and then buy a another species when I get the chance. With the economic crisis in Greece our hobby goes from bad to worse and there aren't many Proper LFS left. A new one will shortly open in my area and there's a big chance they got connections with top eu farms. I will keep you posted.
  18. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    Hello everyone!
    I recently ordered a pair of Apistogramma Agassizii Double Red. They arrived today, but unfortunately in a very bad shape :(. They were almost dead and now I'm doing the best I can to revive them. Their condition seems to improve but they'll need several hours to acclimate completely, if they do make it. I hope they will get better and I'll be able to show them to you!
  19. ErtyJr

    ErtyJr Active Member

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    Oh no! Horrible to hear. But don't overly worry, I recently purchased a pair of wc A. sp. abacaxis and the male was so starved his back was severely hunched with a concave gut. He now is in excellent condition after only 2 weeks!
  20. bbetta

    bbetta Member 5 Year Member

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    Sadly, both fish did not make it...