Ulcer/injury Apistogramma Borelli Opal

[Nickx95]

Hi all,I've just discovered an injury on the underbelly of my Apistogramma. I have a feeling that he's only keeping his mouth open. Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

[MacZ]

Template for disease/parasite/death cases

This template contains the most important questions to be answered when dealing with sick or dead fish to find causes and advise on treatments. Please copy and paste into a new thread and answer the questions as precise as possible. Water parameters should be given in numbers. "Fine" or "good"...

apistogramma.com

Please fill out the template. The pictures are not giving any infos.

 

[Nickx95]

Template for disease/parasite/death cases

This template contains the most important questions to be answered when dealing with sick or dead fish to find causes and advise on treatments. Please copy and paste into a new thread and answer the questions as precise as possible. Water parameters should be given in numbers. "Fine" or "good"...

apistogramma.com

Please fill out the template. The pictures are not giving any infos.

Which animal is affected? Species, sex, age? (If age unknown: How long have you had the fish?)
Apistogramma Borelli Opal - Male - ca. 2 Years old

What are the symptoms? Any changes in look, behaviour, bearing, buoyancy, fecies?
Ulcer under the mouth. was previously active and swam around the tank, but now he just hides and keeps his mouth open all the time

How long has the problem been going on? (Timeline?)
2 Weeks now

What's the full stocking list?
10 xHyphessobrycon amandae, 10x

Paracheirodon simulans, 5x Otocinclus, 2x Apistogramma Borelli Opal (Male/Female)
Some Red Neocaridina davidi​

Any changes in the behaviour of the other fish?
No

What size is the tank? (Preferrably dimensions, not volume!)
60x35x35 (60P)

How long is the tank running?

redesigned 2 weeks ago. Been using the filter for 1.5 years. Filter leaked during the renovation. And water changes are only done with osmosis water.​

Have there been any changes in the past 2 months? New animals, plants, decoration?
New Plants(InVitro), new Soil, bit new Stones (basalt)

What food are the fish fed? How much, how often?

red artemia (frost), Flakes Food,every evening​

​

What is the temperature? ​

24

What are the water parameters? (Please note all known tank and source water parameters in numbers! Not "good", "optimal" or "perfect"!)
pH: 7,2
GH: 3
KH: 4
EC/TDS: 220
NO3: 5.0
NO2: 0
NH3/4: /

What test kit did you use? (liquid, strips, store service?)
Liquid (JBL)

Are you using water conditioners or any other additives? (e.g. dechlorinators, humic/blackwater extracts, fertilizers)
Liquid Humin, GH+

What filter are you using? (Canister, sponge, internal, mattenfilter?)
Canister (Aquael Ultramaxx 1000)

What's the maintenance regimen? (Waterchange volume and frequency, thorough cleaning of filters/substrate?)

Change 20% of the water volume each week and 50% each month. (Top up with osmosis water only). Filter every 3 months.​

Have there been any chemicals used around the tank? (Cleaning agents, room sprays, wall paint, adhesives...)
No

Have there been any pesticides, fungicides or herbicides used around the tank?
No

Are there any unknown animals in the tank?
No

What has been done already? (Timeline!)

nothing yet..​

​

If so, what meds have been used? (Timeline!)​

No​

 

[MacZ]

Allright then. I'm seeing a pattern here. Small things but they do add up

Male - ca. 2 Years old

Considering the life expectancy of most dwarf cichlids is between 2 and 2.5 years, this points to one part of the problem.

What's the full stocking list?
10 xHyphessobrycon amandae, 10x Paracheirodon simulans, 5x Otocinclus, 2x Apistogramma Borelli Opal (Male/Female)

That's quite a number for that tank size.

What food are the fish fed? How much, how often?

red artemia (frost), Flakes Food,every evening​

Red Artemia? I know Artemia, I know red mosquito larvae. I do not know what red artemia are. Flake food is often pretty much garbage, can you elaborate?

What is the temperature?
24

In combination with the age... A. borellii are best kept at room temp. So between 20 and 22°C. 24°C will speed up their metabolism and make them age faster.

Have there been any changes in the past 2 months? New animals, plants, decoration?
New Plants(InVitro), new Soil, bit new Stones (basalt)

Soil at a KH of 4 is probably not the best choice. How are the hardness levels explained if you only use RO water? Sure it's basalt stone?

A picture of the whole tank would be helpful aswell.

My main concern is: The fish is already past it's prime and kept at too high temp. It might all come down to these to factors. If so... well, then the fish had a good life, but every living being has to face the end at some point.

 

[Nickx95]

I know that there are a lot of fish... my breeder gave me a somewhat wrong recommendation... but I won't be stocking so much in the future.
I also have the frozen food from my breeder (I've attached a picture for you, it's called Artemia Intesiv Red in German). I've been using it from the start... all the fish take it well and have great colors... that's why I didn't think about it. And the flake food is from Organix.

and good advice with the temperature... I'll set it a little colder right away.

And I have to measure the KH GH again now after the redesign... I don't often measure the values. Because my previous aquascape went great, both the animals and the plants were great. And yes, it's 100% basalt.

I've attached the old and the new layout for you

 

[anewbie]

75/24 is fine for borelli.

 

[MacZ]

First of all, I'm German too, grüß dich! But will have to stick to English, because it's the standard language here.

I know that there are a lot of fish... my breeder gave me a somewhat wrong recommendation... but I won't be stocking so much in the future.

I assume the Trichopsis gourami are gone?

I also have the frozen food from my breeder (I've attached a picture for you, it's called Artemia Intesiv Red in German). I've been using it from the start... all the fish take it well and have great colors... that's why I didn't think about it. And the flake food is from Organix.

Ok, just Artemia with added carotines and other colour enhancers. I'd switch to standard artemia, those are much less pricey and add other stuff ti the rotation. Just one type of food every day is not healthy. We don't eat burgers and fries every day either, right? Add white mosquito larvae (but no red ones!), Daphnia, Cyclops and microworms to the menu. Also try to find dry foods with less grains and starches and as little fish as possible. Insect-based is best. In Germany you can go for Sera Insect, Fluval Bug Bites or the More For Fish Brand by Fressnapf.

and good advice with the temperature... I'll set it a little colder right away.

DON'T! They sold you fish that need different temperature ranges, 24°C is actually the best compromise. P. simulans are a little on the warmer side, with a good average temp of 26, the H. amandae and Otocinclus should be kept at roughly 25, the gourami and your Apistos do best in room temp 18-22°C. Quite a fish soup they sold you there.

And honestly... that kind of scape is ok for he tetras, but neither for the cichlids nor the gourami. This type of island scape is generally not very fish friendly as they lack good cover and if it wasn't A. borellii any other Apistogramma would be at each other's throats in such a scape as there are no territory markers around the island in the middle, so a dominant fish would claim the whole tank. The old layout was better, though covering the floor with plants is against the needs of dwarf cichlids.

And yes, it's 100% basalt.

I can identify at least 2-3 pieces as so-called Seiryu, a type of limestone originally described from Japan, which is found in stores in many countries. That stuff buffers KH and GH.

 

[MacZ]

75/24 is fine for borelli.

In general and as a compromise, yes, though I think long term not the best idea.

 

[Nickx95]

First of all, I'm German too, grüß dich! But will have to stick to English, because it's the standard language here.


I assume the Trichopsis gourami are gone?


Ok, just Artemia with added carotines and other colour enhancers. I'd switch to standard artemia, those are much less pricey and add other stuff ti the rotation. Just one type of food every day is not healthy. We don't eat burgers and fries every day either, right? Add white mosquito larvae (but no red ones!), Daphnia, Cyclops and microworms to the menu. Also try to find dry foods with less grains and starches and as little fish as possible. Insect-based is best. In Germany you can go for Sera Insect, Fluval Bug Bites or the More For Fish Brand by Fressnapf.


DON'T! They sold you fish that need different temperature ranges, 24°C is actually the best compromise. P. simulans are a little on the warmer side, with a good average temp of 26, the H. amandae and Otocinclus should be kept at roughly 25, the gourami and your Apistos do best in room temp 18-22°C. Quite a fish soup they sold you there.

And honestly... that kind of scape is ok for he tetras, but neither for the cichlids nor the gourami. This type of island scape is generally not very fish friendly as they lack good cover and if it wasn't A. borellii any other Apistogramma would be at each other's throats in such a scape as there are no territory markers around the island in the middle, so a dominant fish would claim the whole tank. The old layout was better, though covering the floor with plants is against the needs of dwarf cichlids.


I can identify at least 2-3 pieces as so-called Seiryu, a type of limestone originally described from Japan, which is found in stores in many countries. That stuff buffers KH and GH.

Okay... I see... First of all, thank you for taking the time to give such detailed explanations! They are really very helpful. I've only been back into the aquarium hobby for about two years! And I'm currently very much into aquascaping.

The Guramis are gone, yes. I gave them to a colleague.



I think I won't buy any more dwarf cichlids for the time being, as the current layout is the wrong environment for them. It's a shame, because they are definitely some of my favorite animals. But it's all new information that I didn't know in advance. I assumed that if the island is nicely overgrown, it would provide a nice territory for the little ones.


And yes... the stones are also an issue... I bought them from a well-known aquascaping studio... unfortunately, I also trusted them... But on the whole, the tank went really well last year... but you can always improve things.

 

[MacZ]

I have no problems with highly stylized aquascaping. I just think people should be aware that many of the more artsy scaping styles are simply not fit for keeping more demanding species. Easy small group fish like tetras and many rasboras, sure, but most cichlids, catfish and labyrinth fish really do not do well in many of these.

The rocks... many people that deal in aquarium stuff do not even know. Don't blame them. They are trained to sell, not to know things like that.

I think I won't buy any more dwarf cichlids for the time being, as the current layout is the wrong environment for them. It's a shame, because they are definitely some of my favorite animals. But it's all new information that I didn't know in advance. I assumed that if the island is nicely overgrown, it would provide a nice territory for the little ones.

Good thing is, you don't need very big tanks for them. With an 80cm tank you are already set.

Now as for your A. borellii... you can't do anything besides observation. Try to get a better picture and I'll be honest, be prepared to end its suffering at one point.

 

[Nickx95]

I completely agree with you.

I don't think I can get better pictures. On both of them, you can see the pimple under the mouth best.

The question then is what to do with the female? I don't want to buy another male for the time being...


And yes, that's right about the stones... but if you're German, Liquid Nature from Austria probably means something to you, right? I actually already trusted that they would give me the same stone for everything

 

[MacZ]

The question then is what to do with the female? I don't want to buy another male for the time being...

Leave her alone. They can easily stay alone. Especially older specimens.

And yes, that's right about the stones... but if you're German, Liquid Nature from Austria probably means something to you, right? I actually already trusted that they would give me the same stone for everything

Only by name. I'm not a scaper myself. Absolutely not my style.