• Hello guest! Are you an Apistogramma enthusiast? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's a great place for Apisto enthusiasts to meet online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your fish and tanks and have a great time with other Apisto enthusiasts. Sign up today!

Two Questions??

Norman Fenske

Member
Messages
69
Location
Richmond Va
Yesterday I was watching the pr of Orange Flash and I noticed the Female was trying to eat the fry. From what I saw the fry manged to get away. So my question is this normal behavior at times its not like the fry are moving dots any more now they look more like normal size fry. From my experience the fry will get eaten fairly quickly after they are free swimming ( based on different types of cichlids )
2nd question I have 2 prs of Triple reds one of the pairs just laid eggs ( saw it happen ) and within a few days the male is dead?? The water in all of my tanks is the same the silver tip tetras as well as some guppies my daughter has are also in the tank the male was the only casualty the female is still guarding the eggs any ideas??
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
Mothers will often retrieve fry that are straying too far by catching them in their mouth and spitting them back in a place that the mother perceives as safe. Seeing you (or any other huge head) close to the tank may prompt this. She might not be trying to eat them.

Did the dead male look beaten up, with missing scales and shredded fins? If so, maybe the mother killed him. If not, there's loads of other possible reasons why fish die. Not much info here to make guesses on.
 

Norman Fenske

Member
Messages
69
Location
Richmond Va
What you said about the mother's moving the fry makes sense if she was eating them they would be gone by now. The male was a full grown adult the past couple days it just did not look right. Lethargic might be a good word. When I took the male out of the tank body wise it looked fine it might be it was just an older male, I have no idea how long the LFS had it before I got it. Size wise it was 3+ so maybe it was age?? I feel if it was sick something wrong with the water etc there would be other losses in the tank.
 

Ade205

Active Member
Messages
172
Location
Swadlincote, England
As Gerald said, mother is most likely retrieving any fry that make a run for it or stray to far from the pack for her liking...

Re dead male, when this happens so close to spawning or new fry my first question is always how big is the tank? I've had total harmony in 20g longs and within a day of spawning a dead male due to extreme female aggression, especially in tanks with just the breeding pair in.

Ade.
 

Norman Fenske

Member
Messages
69
Location
Richmond Va
Some will agree some will not I am going by what a breeder has told me. I am using 10g tanks for breeding and yes I have read you have to use 20 or larger and I have also read some have bred apisto's in 2.5g tanks the important thing is to make sure the water quality is good. As it stands all my apisto's are doing well. Well with 1 exception but I agree it must have been the female that killed the male. Another problem is there is not enough cover as soon as the leaves start changing I am planning on adding some leaves to the tanks which should also help.
 

gerald

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
1,491
Location
Wake Forest NC, USA
Aggression wasn't the problem in this case. Norman said the male was lethargic the past few days before it died, and "body wise it looked fine". Most likely died from some internal organ failure, possibly from disease, diet, age, ... ???
 

Ade205

Active Member
Messages
172
Location
Swadlincote, England
I get what your saying Gerald, just my opinion based on what was said about circumstances...
Enough aggression to kill can easily happen unseen and fins are not the target, and difficult to see tears on dead fish any way.
My reasoning for comments was more so that the male was well enough to spawn within these few days of 'lethargy', and no other casualties coupled with a brooding female as the only other fish in his area at bottom of tank surely raises suspicion? Especially in a 10g!! I've had a female Cac kill a cory outright and if I'd not seen you would in no way of guessed cause of death.
As said though, just imo and with a little added Colombo detective work and speculation! Maybe if fish was weak and had some unseen ailments the spawning process may of weakened him enough to succumb to his issues... it's just that as in life in general, I don't trust brooding females!!!

Ade.
 
Last edited:

Norman Fenske

Member
Messages
69
Location
Richmond Va
Well I am not going to lose sleep over it in fact when I took the m out of the tank I tossed him outside. My only comment the rest of the fish in the tank are fine no signs of disease parasites nothing so I will agree with Ade.
 

yukondog

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Messages
659
Location
N.W. Fl.
I've only breed Borellii [10gl.] once they breed I remove the male and allow the female to raise the brood.
 

Norman Fenske

Member
Messages
69
Location
Richmond Va
All my apisto's are in 10g tanks part of the reason was the one LFS where I live is doing the same thing and I have also asked from a known breeder who has informed me as long as the water is correct it really does not matter. He has seem them raised in 2.5gallon tanks on up. Your idea of removing the male might be a good idea in the future. The m orange flash is doing ok yes the f keeps the m away from the fry but its not warfare so to speak. The m is more interested in looking at himself thru the reflection on the tank sides,
 

Mike Wise

Moderator
Staff member
5 Year Member
Messages
10,706
Location
Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Although I bred many apisos in 10s in the past I've stopped the practice. First aggression can take its toll on the fish quickly and a 10 generally is too small for the attacked fish to hide before being killed. Anyone who plans to use small tank needs to be aware of the fishes behaviors and quickly react to it or expect to lose fish. Additionally once fry appear and are fed water quality needs to be more carefully monitored in smaller tank. Dozens of fry put out more waste than 1 fish with the same mass. Water quality can drop quickly in smaller tanks. That's why I recommend larger tanks. They allow you more time to notice and remove problems.
 

Norman Fenske

Member
Messages
69
Location
Richmond Va
I agree with you and yes you have to keep up with water changes etc. The bigger the tank the easier it is to maintain I agree. I may not know as much as you are others but I have been in this hobby for quite awhile although Apisto's is new and different. I seem to be learning something new daily whether its from this forum watching the behavior of the fish and asking questions. In my case I should have noticed the aggression sooner but in my Orange flash tank the fry are doing fine growing slowly but growing and both M and F doing okay. I have been thinking of doing some changes on some of my tanks the only issue the L. Malawi Mbuna I have orange top cobue the males are awesome and I really do not want to get rid of them but I could see the benefits of using a 40g breeder and I have another 30 with White Top Afra that could also be put to good use towards Apisto's. I really appreciate your suggestions but for now with limited space and funds I will make this work and hopefully make some of my money back as the fry get bigger. Then I can move on to larger tanks.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
17,137
Messages
108,751
Members
12,507
Latest member
Clarky

Latest profile posts

I'm clueless. If I say something you can safely ignore it.
Apistomaster wrote on anewbie's profile.
I see that The Wet Spot Tropical Fish currently has the fire red A. agassizi you are looking for. Here is the link:
I've always had good experiences buying from them on line.
Hallo,
I am Hanzle from Holland and keep apistoos for 40 years. Had my own aquarium shop from 1984 till 1988. Always s great fan from apistoos and hyphessobrycon which is s great combination in a Community Aquarium. Perhaps.....in the near future I start breeding apistoos again. Have a 400 liters Community aquarium for hyphessobrycon wadai and apistogramma biteaniata.
I want to get a 55 gallon slightly planted tank with many caves and I am thinking of getting 2 electric blue acaras, 3 blue rams, a apistogramma, 3 angelfish, and some corrydoras. Will that work if I keep the temperature at about and 80 or less?
I have kept fish for quite a long time but never cichlids. I want to find out more about them.
Top