The Bolivian Ram Wins

[wespastor]

Greetings:

Some of you may follow this thread from the Apistogramma area.

Some background first:

I have been keeping planted tank for more than 20 years ... fishes they were/are just ferts

I am in sort of a quandary.

I wanted to expand on my fish keeping to the New World Cichlids. During my general search (I just looked at a bunch of pictures) of these fishes and saw two that I thought I might like to keep.
(Microgeophagus altispinosus) aka Bolivian Ram, Ruby Crown Cichlid or Apistogramma agassizi aka Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid, Biotodoma agassizi, Geophagus agassizi, Mesops agassizi

With the former Bolivian Ram Finding local sources became next to impossible when I found a source the price per fish became somewhat cost prohibitive at $10 ea and wanting to keep 6 of them I went for the latter Agassiz's Dwarf Cichlid finding the cost per fish near half.

Here’s the rub.

The apisto’s in my LFSs are kept in the same tank without regard to species separation. (Selling something under the wrong name brings up a new problem. And I do realize that it happens occasionally by accident in some well meaning LFS but if it can be helped, it shouldn't be done. And this topic is a whole other discussion.)

Because I am admittedly a novice to keeping these fish I cannot at a glance tell the difference among them notwithstanding their coloring seems spectacular. I’m also looking to obtain juveniles so that I may be able to enjoy them for a longer period of time. It’s my understanding that these fishes lifespan is only about 2–3 years. Further, as juveniles and having 6 or so of them in the same tank I will more likely be able to get a pair (though I understand that a harem is more the norm.)

So in a nut shell, what’s a novice to do? There is only so much that can be learned from a book (forums). Buying online is dreadfully cost prohibitive because of shipping cost and I don’t even want to talk about the heat.

This was posted over in the other section and after much kindly banter and advice. I found a LFS that could help me.

So the BR’s win!!!!!

These were my first choice to begin with as I fell in love with them almost at first sight.

So here are some specific questions:

1. I’m looking to obtain Oak leaves for leaf litter. Do the leaves need to be whole or crumbled?
2. I am also planned to use IAL … Same question as above.
3. Is there any real advantage to using some sort of peat pellets (bulk peat) in my canister filter?

Please Note: That I plan to start with 6 Juveniles so that I am more likely to obtain a pair after a pair is obtained the remaining fish will be removed so that there would only be the pair in a 30 gallon breeder.


Any other comments and advice for keeping BR’s.

Thanks for looking.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[Mike Wise]

Well, this is just my personal opinion. Use leaf litter only if you want them for decoration; if not leave them out. Unlike many apistos species, M. altispinosus really does not use them for refuge in the wild (or aquarium). For spawning, yes - if there are not other solid surfaces available, but wood, rocks, and broadleaf plants in the aquarium are equally acceptable. Additionally, the tannins and pH lowering benefits of leaf litter are not that important to this species. It is highly adaptable to pH/hardness values that aren't overly extreme.

 

[wespastor]

Well, this is just my personal opinion. Use leaf litter only if you want them for decoration; if not leave them out. Unlike many apistos species, M. altispinosus really does not use them for refuge in the wild (or aquarium). For spawning, yes - if there are not other solid surfaces available, but wood, rocks, and broadleaf plants in the aquarium are equally acceptable. Additionally, the tannins and pH lowering benefits of leaf litter are not that important to this species. It is highly adaptable to pH/hardness values that aren't overly extreme.

That's the ticket...
Thanks for the advice ...
Sometimes in doing research one gets their wires crossed, or over emphasizes one point in their understanding.

In the end ... the tank will be a biotope for the BR's so many of the plants will be removed or exchanged for others.

Here's a pic for those that are following and for those thaat are seeing this tank for the first time.

Any other ideas or oppinions?

Thanks for looking.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[Hmoobthor]

hmm...BR are easily obtainable here for very cheap...

I use to keep them...always ram each other but ya...they color up very good.

Would like to get 1 gold ram...just for the heck of it..lol

 

[wespastor]

QUOTE=Hmoobthor;63314]hmm...BR are easily obtainable here for very cheap...

[/QUOTE]

Yea but the shipping is the killer both for the price and do I need to talk about the 100 degree heat

Thanks.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[Melanochromis]

Bolivian Ram is a very nice fish in many ways, although they do annoy you sometimes too. It's definitely one of my favorite cichlids.

Here's pictures of some of my babies. Hope they will entice you to keep looking for them

 

[tompoz]

One remark on the tank: if it is to be a biotope aquarium, change the gravel to sand.

 

[Hmoobthor]

QUOTE=Hmoobthor;63314]hmm...BR are easily obtainable here for very cheap...

Yea but the shipping is the killer both for the price and do I need to talk about the 100 degree heat

Thanks.

Best wishes,
Wes

you shouldn't have to order them online....

Most petstore would special order them for free if they don't carry them..this will save you on shipping

 

[wespastor]

One remark on the tank: if it is to be a biotope aquarium, change the gravel to sand.

The biotope will be later ... 10 -15 months from now after a move.
I will convert the tank at that time. As for the gravel it's whats left over from fil;ling with paver sand ... the fines go down the course go up over time So, the course stuff will come out eventually for sure.

Thanks for all the kindly advice and help.

Keep your thouughts and Ideas coming ... after all I am a novice at keep this fish though I do over 20 years of keeping planted tanks and other fishes... just expanding my horizon a little.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[wespastor]

you shouldn't have to order them online....

Most petstore would special order them for free if they don't carry them..this will save you on shipping

I have been asking at my variety of LFS even (cringe the big box stores) for over 3 months. and at my Local club for a year.

What's a guy to do?

Sorry for the rant.

They should be available thats what gets me ... it not like this fish is the hottest thing on the market ... or is the market turning?

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[Mike Wise]

The phone is your friend; use it. Cleveland must have more than big box pet stores.

 

[wespastor]

The phone is your friend; use it. Cleveland must have more than big box pet stores.

Been there done that!!!! no success!!! yet still doing that!!!! you thik I have no brains???

 

[Mike Wise]

Sorry, personally I think you are just unwilling to pay the going price. Nothing wrong with that, but other people seeming are willing to pay store prices. If you want something bad enough you'll pay to get it or just not get it. I'm the same as you.

 

[wespastor]

Sorry, personally I think you are just unwilling to pay the going price. Nothing wrong with that, but other people seeming are willing to pay store prices. If you want something bad enough you'll pay to get it or just not get it. I'm the same as you.

Not true. The stores in my area just don't have them or want to get them. However I did find one just the other day. So I guess the actual search for the fish is over. Now I just need to wait till Thurday when the fish come in. and not for $10.00 per fish either. almost half.

Thank for your inconsideration

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[Apistomaster]

The background plant in your aquarium photo with the Yucca-like leaves is Acorus gramineus. It is a bog plant which does best in cooler water and mostly exposed above the water line. They seldom grow well but they die so slowly it can be difficult to notice they are in decline. You are probably going to be seeing it slowly rot soon.
Otherwise with a fine sand bottom it is well set up for Bolivian Rams.

Many fish are like Bolivian Rams; common in many areas and less so in others. A lot depends on how diverse the wholesale suppliers are in an area. Many regions are served by several smaller wholesalers and in these instances the diversity of species tends to be low and most every shop has the same stock. The Bolivian Rams are far from being rare and expensive as you eventually discovered.

 

[wespastor]

The background plant in your aquarium photo with the Yucca-like leaves is Acorus gramineus.

I have no plant vaguely resembling that, unless you are referring to a grouping of plants on the right 1/3 of the tank, then those are a common Dwarf Onion Plant (Zephyranthes candida). These have been positioned there for about 5 months or so. Probably true even still these are not true aquatics and have since bean working to replace them with anther.

Many fish are like Bolivian Rams; common in many areas and less so in others. A lot depends on how diverse the wholesale suppliers are in an area. Many regions are served by several smaller wholesalers and in these instances the diversity of species tends to be low and most every shop has the same stock. The Bolivian Rams are far from being rare and expensive as you eventually discovered.

What I have discovered is that the one source of the rams seems to take advantage of his customers who may not otherwise be as frugal with their resources as I. And I eventually found a LFS that I was not aware was located near me in a direction I never go … so it’s out of the way for me ... but nonetheless I found it. He place an order for me along with his regular order and I paid far less than half I even made some additional purchases while I was there and the regular rate and still ended up spending less than half for all six of the rams I ended up purchasing.

...

Now for some pictures of the fish.

Right now they are in Quarantine for the next six weeks. They are doing very well I would say even thriving but time will tell. A bit of sad news though on the ninth day I had an escape artist too it doom. One ended up jumping into the filter and it suffered and died. I sure hope it wasn’t a female. This small group seems to be all males. I do not have individual pictures yet. I most likely will not be able to get those until the time of transfer to the large tank.

Now without further ado the pix.

Thanks for lookin’.

Best wishes,
Wes

 

[henkh]

Nice pics. Can you tell what size they are at this moment? With the Altispinosa's it takes a while to sex the individuals. When they reach the almost adult length females develop their egg tube (don't know the english word) visible like a little white tube. Later on adult develop longer fins. Often, but not always, the red in the fins with males is of a deeper/brighter red as by females.

 

[wespastor]

Nice pics. Can you tell what size they are at this moment? With the Altispinosa's it takes a while to sex the individuals. When they reach the almost adult length females develop their egg tube (don't know the english word) visible like a little white tube. Later on adult develop longer fins. Often, but not always, the red in the fins with males is of a deeper/brighter red as by females.

They are about 48 mm long total from mouth to caudal fin.

 

[henkh]

Oké, in that case i think you have all males, cause the egg tube (still don't know the correct english word) should be visible.

 

[wespastor]

On a note, however, I don't have a picture of them all yet. I will over the next couple of day get those. I have a Plan.

Keep lookin'

Thanks for lookin'

Best wishes,
Wes