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sexing gephyra "barcelos"

Discussion in 'Identification and Morphology' started by candidi, Oct 30, 2005.

  1. candidi

    candidi New Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi all,

    I just have since 2 days 4 A. gephyra "barcelos". I never keep them and I'm very not sure about the sexes. They are small now and I'm just sure to have one male.

    On Uwe Römer's book, I read that the female don't have any color in the caudal and that (don't know the real word, but...) the 2 fins under the body have a little black line.

    Could someone tell me more about them?

    Thank you

    Candidi
  2. blueblue

    blueblue Active Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi Candidi,

    You are right that gephyra's female has short and black "legs" (the
    fins just under the body), and the caudal fin is basically round and
    does not have any fancy pattern. It is very similar
    to that in Agassizii.

    Cheers ^.^



  3. candidi

    candidi New Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi blueblue,

    Thank you for your answer. I just did not understand well what mean "fancy pattern", my english is not so good :rolleyes: .

    I never keep agassizii too :tongue: . I'm lost with the aggassizii complex :biggrin: .

    I'll try to make some pics.

    Best regards

    Candidi
  4. Oupsy

    Oupsy New Member 5 Year Member

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    Hello dear friend !

    Fins under body would be ventral fins :biggrin:

    And french for "fancy pattern" would be " un motif voyant/tape a l'oeil"

    Regards

    Oupsy.
  5. candidi

    candidi New Member 5 Year Member

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    :biggrin: :tongue: Thank you very much for the translation my dear oupsy :tongue: :biggrin:

    Candidi
  6. candidi

    candidi New Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi everybody,

    Endly i've some pics about 2 of my 4 gephyra.

    Here is the dominant male :

    [​IMG]

    And here is a unknown for me :

    [​IMG]

    I don't know what to think cause when the little one is aggressive... he/she has some color on the board of the caudal.... :confused: , but he/she's not so **** as the male...

    And her/his TL is around 3 cm at that time

    What do you think about those pics?

    Thank you in advance

    Sébastien
  7. blueblue

    blueblue Active Member 5 Year Member

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    the second fish is definitely a male fish..
    but it could be an agassizii, instead of a gephyra.
  8. candidi

    candidi New Member 5 Year Member

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    Thanks blueblue for your id...

    I thought I've 4 males... but don't wanted to say that to me... :frown:

    Cause the two other look like the two on the pics... 4 males are in my tank.

    How do you see the difference between aga and gephyra? Really difficult for me.

    Is this something new about the description of aga and gephyra? Super species complex, one specie, ... (I hope you know what I mean)

    Sébastien
  9. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    Sébastien,

    A. agassizii & A. gephyra are very closely related species. There are fish in the Rio Negro that even have characteristics of both species. It is more easy to identify mature adult male A. gephyra & A. agassizii:

    A. gephyra: dorsal & anal fins have only slightly extended tips; dorsal fin always has red edge; caudal fin not as long & pointed; interior of caudal fin has a lace-like pattern of spots & streaks, usually only in the upper half; white submarginal band on tail is very narrow & often broken; body sheen not very bright; when in aggressive display, the lateral band extends from the eye to the tail.

    A. agassizii: dorsal & anal fins have extended tips, dorsal fin has red edge on only a few populations; caudal fin long & pointed "spade/lance-shape"; interior of caudal rarely has lace-like pattern, but linear streaks instead; white submarginal band on tail is usually broad & usually unbroken; body sheen bright & metallic; when in aggressive display, the lateral band extends from the eye to the back edge of the operculum & is only prominent again on the caudal fin with a prominent caudal spot on the flanks.

    I believe that we will eventually discover that the agassizii-species-complex is composed of many species besides A. agassizii, A. gephyra, & A. sp. Tefé. A. cf. gephyra, A. cf. agassizii (Broad Black Caudal Seam), among others, will probably be recognized as separate species, too.
  10. candidi

    candidi New Member 5 Year Member

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    Thanks Mike for the great explain...

    If I understand good, gephyra have a little withe line in the caudal fin... like mine, and the caudal of my dominant male is not very long, with a little spike. But they're not adult fishes...

    I will try to do more pics in the next days.

    Sébastien
  11. blueblue

    blueblue Active Member 5 Year Member

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    Great explanations Mike ^.^

    yes, i also agree that probably there are many
    species among the agassizii and gephyra complex...

    By the way, i actually onder how different two species are
    can one say "a species is different from another species"?
    Just like Viejita and macmasteri: they are regarded as
    two different
    species BUT they can breed together, and even the
    hobbyists view/call their offsrpings as Viejita I, II, etc...
  12. candidi

    candidi New Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi blueblue,

    For me :

    The species can be breeded together when they belongs to the same complex.

    For example, agassizii and gephyra, pertensis and iniridae, sp xingù and sp vielfleck... and viejita and macmasteri...

    I hope that my english is clear for you.

    Sébastien

    P.S. : If I missunderstood something, please say me, my english is not so good as yours lol
  13. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    The definition of "species" varies with who is using it. Molecular biologists use differences in DNA, while physical taxonomists use meristic differences. It is good to remember that Nature has no need to classify life into "species". Only man feels the need to do this.
  14. candidi

    candidi New Member 5 Year Member

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    Hi back,

    I've some new pics about my "gephyra". It seems now that I have two species, but sold under the same name.

    They grew up a little.

    Here the first male (only one from this specie) :

    [​IMG]

    And here a second pic (three male fishes from those ones) :

    [​IMG]

    Can somebody say me which species or forms they belongs?

    Thank you

    Sébastien
  15. Mike Wise

    Mike Wise Moderator Staff Member 5 Year Member

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    The top one is A. gephyra. The bottom one looks like it has a round tail and rows of spots on the tail. It might be a form of A. pulchra.
  16. candidi

    candidi New Member 5 Year Member

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    Thanks Mike for your answer.

    I'll take some more pics about the both... I'll wait a little, they stille must grow a few.

    Yes, you're right, the three others have a round tail, with a very little withe line...

    Sébastien